Wednesday, October 19, 2011

Fixing NBA 2K12, Part II

I completed my ratings, tendencies, and assigned plays for the Celtics, and instead of running a CPU match I decided to play against them with my also completed Knicks.

All-Star difficulty
Simulation sliders

Rather than post the box score it might be best to look at each individual player's performance.

Carmelo Anthony
STATS: 44 Points, 6 Rebounds, 5 Assists, 1 Steal, 43 Minutes
SHOTS: 19-30 FG, 1-1 3PT, 5-5 FT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers, 4 Fouls

I had my offensive play calling set to Auto which naturally meant a bunch of Iso and Post plays for Melo.  Naturally, I suck at the new Iso & Post controls.  I still managed to find some separation here and there, and hit my share of contested shots too (which balanced out the ridiculous rate the CPU hit some of theirs).  One thing I don't like about "Simulation" sliders is that the CPU will never swipe at the ball and thus I was kinda free to generate my own shot without losing the ball (PASSING is the absolute worst thing you can do in this game at times).  Thus Melo only had 2 turnovers to his 30 FGA, 5 FTA, and 5 assists.  The CPU also never goes for Charges which is a main source of Melo's real life turnovers, and unfortunately this is a feature that has been largely absent from the last 4-5 years of 2K.

Paul Pierce
STATS: 38 Points, 6 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 6 Steals, 2 Blocks, 37 Minutes
SHOTS: 15-20 FG, 4-6 3PT, 4-4 FT
NEGATIVE: 1 Turnover, 1 Foul

You can't get any more efficient than the game Pierce had.  I played great defense for much of the game (at least as good as one can with Carmelo Anthony), but that is more than one can say about the dreaded CPU.  Two straight possessions Pierce was able to hit threes because the CPU got totally lost on their rotations (chasing after a man that already had defensive coverage) while I was busy successfully defending a West/Garnett Pick & Roll.

Pierce also hit a go-ahead three with 1.8 seconds left in OT by literally jogging through a double screen play to hit an uncontested three.  I didn't have much of a beef with his shot selection but the CPU defensive AI (who I honestly think intentionally function worse when rubberband AI is in effect) made his line a bit gaudier than it should have been (32 points on 13-18 FG and 2-4 3PT I can live with).  Pierce also didn't take many FTs so maybe I could have been more physical with him on his drives... though the CPU managed to avoid contact from even the help defender on a few occasions.

Pierce also had 6 steals mainly from reaching on post entry passes to Melo.  I wish my CPU would aggressively go after post entry passes.

Amare Stoudemire
STATS: 28 Points, 8 Rebounds, 2 Blocks, 44 Minutes
SHOTS: 12-24 FG, 4-5 FT
NEGATIVE: 3 Turnovers, 3 Fouls

After fixing the assigned plays, Amare ran more Pick and Rolls than he normally would, which was very pleasing.  He should be utilizing his quickness against Garnett rather than playing with his back to the basket against one of the best post defenders in the league.  I was also able to find him on a few basket cuts during one of Melo's isolation plays (this was not part of the play diagram, and I doubt the CPU would make this kind of recognition).

Amare also hit the game winning shot (unfortunately not a buzzer beater for the achievement, 0.3 seconds left) as I gave the CPU a taste of it's own medicine.  For whatever reason my team wasn't running an inbounds play so I grabbed Amare (who was standing 30 feet from the basket with 1.8 seconds left looking for a pass like an idiot) and ran him towards the basket where he belongs.  Garnett got caught behind Fields, Jermaine O'Neal (inbound defender), and Pierce (defending Fields) which gave Amare a clear path to the basket.  Amare caught the ball 10 feet away and pulled up for a jumper.  If I missed the shot I probably would have kicked myself for not going for the layup (though if time expired I would have kicked myself for not going for the shot).  I think I pulled up simply because I was so shocked I was open.   Either way, the shot went down, and Boston had no timeouts remaining (and w/ 0.3 ticks left, not enough time to get a shot anyway).

Kevin Garnett
STATS: 12 Points, 3 Rebounds, 2 Steals, 2 Blocks, 43 Minutes
SHOTS: 6-15 FG, 0-1 3PT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers, 3 Fouls

I took Garnett very seriously because I remember how unstoppable his fadeaway is in previous 2K games. Late in the game I started doubling off Rondo anytime KG got it in the post.  He got a few good looks due to poor CPU rotation but at the end of the day he did not have a good offensive game (zero assists, no free throws, 9 missed shots).

One important feature to note is that Garnett played within himself and didn't dribble around the court.  One of fan's biggest complaints is that bigs have Isolation tendencies that are much too high (Garnett's in particular was a team leading 91).  Isolations only made up 5% of KG's offense IRL so this was appropriately dealt with.

Chauncey Billups
STATS: 11 Points, 4 Rebounds, 8 Assists, 1 Steal, 1 Block, 29 Minutes
SHOTS: 4-7 FG, 2-3 3PT, 1-1 FT
NEGATIVE: 1 Turnover, 6 Fouls

I was a bit reach happy with Billups on the defensive end, forgetting that it was Simulation setting where on-ball steal success is very low.  Billups actually had some good fouls, preventing an alley oop (fouling the passer), and another that stopped a fastbreak so it wasn't all bad.  I am not a fan of his man defense anyway as he isn't nearly quick enough to keep up with Rondo.  I was flabbergasted when Avery Bradley checked into the game in the 4th quarter and then proceeded to blow by Billups for a dunk no more than 5 seconds later.  Offensively, I didn't have a bad game with Billups as he ran the offense and I took smart shots, but his defensive struggles kept the Celtics in the game and I wasn't sad to see him foul out late in the 4th quarter.

Rajon Rondo
STATS: 24 Points, 2 Rebounds, 7 Assists,4 Steals
SHOTS: 9-22 FG, 6-8 FT
NEGATIVE: 1 Turnover, 6 Fouls

As mentioned before, Billups struggled to keep up with Rondo, and I also played off Rondo to double down on Garnett.  The result is the CPU took more shots than Rondo normally would.  He was only 1-6 between the 4th quarter and OT and fouled out via intentional foul on the 2nd to last possession of OT (I bricked one FT which set up Pierce's go-ahead three on the next possession).  I definitely picked my poison properly by staying at home on the big three.  I probably could have defended his penetrations better, but I was also using one of the league's worst defensive teams and I've spent the bulk of my time editing ratings.  Cut me some slack.

Landry Fields
STATS: 11 Points, 5 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 39 Minutes
SHOTS: 3-4 FG, 3-3 3PT, 2-2 FT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers

Fields didn't get many plays run for him (a few Pick & Rolls w/ Amare) but was able to do most of his damage giving post-entry passes to Melo.  Anytime Allen made any effort to double I was able to hit Fields for a three.  Allen was late just enough that he wouldn't put his hands up and Fields was able to get B quallity shots on a Perfect Release that all went down.  Defensively, he struggled to stay in front of Ray Allen at times, but was usually athletic enough to (eventually) recover.  At one point Fields grabbed an offensive board, shot faked, and went to the line.  All told, this was really how Fields plays in real life.

Ray Allen
STATS: 17 Points, 2 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal
SHOTS: 6-17 FG, 1-5 3PT, 4-5 FT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers, 1 Foul

If there was one player I was determined not to let beat me, it was Ray Allen.  I made sure not to leave it to the CPU to chase Allen around on screens.  I didn't overreact to Allen when he was on the 3pt line getting a pick from Garnett.  He isn't going to take the shot in motion.  Just get over and put your hands up.  Only jump when the shot clock is down to one.  The end result is I defended Allen much better than I'd thought.  Most of his successful shots were fastbreak layups and dunks (or a layup he was able to get based on how tight I played him on the perimeter).  I can live with 17 points on 17 shots from Ray Allen.

Ronny Turiaf
STATS: 4 Points, 6 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 1 Block, 35 Minutes
SHOTS: 1-1 FG, 2-2 FT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers

Turiaf had the biggest shot of the night.  Down 2 points with 5 seconds left, I inbounded the ball to Toney Douglas, 35 feet from the basket, momentarily forgetting it was the end of the game.  Douglas drove in but was stopped by Rondo at the FT line.  Turiaf showed up running over Douglas' left shoulder.  Garnett was on my right side chasing Turiaf.  With 1.6 seconds left I figure what the hell and give it to cutting Turiaf half-praying it was Amare (it wasn't... Amare was standing behind the 3pt line in the corner, home position for a PF/C in the 2Kverse).  Turiaf catches the ball but has been re-picked up by Garnett on his right hand side.   Turiaf swoops to the basket and lays it in over Garnett with no time remaining on the clock to send it into overtime.

Aside from that, no plays were ever called for Turiaf and he did his best to stay out of Amare & Melo's way.  He played some solid team defense and helped limit KG but I'd have a bitter taste in my mouth if it weren't for him being in the right place at the right time.

Jermaine O'Neal
STATS: 4 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 3 Steals, 22 Minutes

Like Turiaf, O'Neal got out of the way and focused on defense and rebounding.  3 steals in 22 minutes for O'Neal is a lot considering he only had 2 steals the entire season (458 minutes).   Boston had 18 steals to my 6, which is ultimately what kept them in the game despite my 58% shooting to their 48%.  I was pretty careful with my passing aside from one stint late in the 4th where I turned it over 3 straight times, so I don't know what one can really do to cut back on the CPU's success on this end.  Obviously the Celtics are a good defensive team and get lots of steals, but not from Jermaine O'Neal (0.2 STL% last season).

Toney Douglas
STATS: 7 Points, 3 Rebounds, 10 Assists, 3 Blocks, 33 Minutes
SHOTS: 1-2 FG, 0-1 3PT, 5-6 FT
NEGATIVE: 9 Turnovers, 2 Fouls

Douglas with the epic 1.11 A/T ratio.  His low pass rating probably had something to do with passes getting picked, as Billups had no problem making those same passes.  Unlike Billups however, Douglas had no problem keeping Rondo in front as evidenced by his 3 blocks.  Believe it or not, Douglas actually lead the team in Plus/Minus with +8 while Billups was -5.  Now that I mention it, I did say Rondo was 1-6 in the 4th and OT (including 0-4 in OT which Douglas played all of) so really, we saw the best and worst of the Knick PGs.  Both have to be used differently.  2K's playcalling system doesn't do a great job of recognizing this.  One thing I definitely would have done if I were calling the shots would be to use Douglas in the Pick and Roll more with Amare rather than exclusively featuring Melo every time down, even if Melo was having his way offensively (when he actually got the ball - hence the reason why Douglas is best used in P/R situations).

Jeff Green
STATS: 5 Points, 4 Rebounds, 2 Steals, 26 Minutes
SHOTS: 1-3 FG, 3-4 FT

Not much to say about Green's performance except that he stayed out of the way.  He posted up a few times with Pierce out of the game but he's not a big time scorer.  His lone basket came on a fastbreak.

Jared Jeffries
STATS: 4 Points, 5 Rebounds, 2 Steals
SHOTS: 1-1 FG, 2-4 FT

Jeffries is only 58 overall but still found a way to impact the game, be it coming up with a loose ball underneath or helping out on the defensive end.  In typical Knick fan fashion, I found myself screaming at the TV anytime Jeffries came up with a ball and was timid about going up for a shot (resulting in a drawn foul).  Part of that is my stick control, the other is just the shock from the CPU not coming up with the loose ball.

Glen Davis
STATS: 4 Points, 6 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 1 Block, 22 Minutes
SHOTS: 2-4 FG, 0-1 3PT

Like most opponents, I didn't really care when Davis had the ball on the perimeter, though he inexplicably was able to blow by Amare on the baseline (w/ Amare sagging off!) thanks to the game's unresponsive defensive controls.

Bill Walker: 2 Points, 3 Rebounds, 1 Block, 13 Minutes (1-2 FG, 0-1 3PT)
Shawne Williams: 2 Rebounds, 1 Foul, 10 Minutes (0-2 FG, 0-1 3PT)
Iman Shumpert: 3 Points, 1 Turnover, 1 Foul, 6 Minutes (1-1 FG, 1-1 3PT)
Delonte West: 5 Points, 2 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 1 Foul, 16 Minutes  (2-4 FG, 1-2 FT)
JaJuan Johnson: 4 Poinrs, 3 Rebounds, 11 Minutes (2-4 FG)
Avery Bradley: 4 Points, 2 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 5 Minutes (2-2 FG)

This was a great gaming experience for me as it was a realistic and back and forth game with some huge highlights for both teams.  I can live with some of the CPU's steals since I was playing the Celtics and most came against a guy who really can't run the point, and even the Knicks' defensive mistakes by the CPU (it IS the Knicks we're talking about).  One major concern however is how many steals the CPU had when they weren't even reaching for the ball.  Turning up that slider would probably make me want to rip my hair out (though it would also lead to more steals on my end).  I also would have liked to see more P/R play from the Celtics which can be attributed to the "Look for Post Players" slider being increased on the Simulation slider set (that certainly isn't a player tendency issue however).

I was basically able to shut down Boston's halfcourt offense (aside from Pierce) but those fastbreaks simply killed me.  Celtics had 64 Points in the Paint, 22 Fastbreak Points, and 28 Points off Turnovers.  They shot 48% from the field, but when you factor in how many of those baskets came on the break, I did a much better defensive job than the numbers showed.  When the CPU wasn't forcing turnovers, I more or less took them to town with my superior shot selection (58% from the field and 7-11 on threes).  The game was ONLY close because I had 15 more turnovers than they did.

All told however, this was one of the most realistic NBA experiences I have ever played, and a big improvement over what we were seeing with the default rosters.  I'm looking forward to working on the other 28 teams.  I will also upload the roster right now so you guys can download and try it out for yourselves (remember: only the Knicks and Celtics are completed so far).  I would love to hear your results.

Monday, October 17, 2011

Real 2K Insider fixed the NBA 2K12 gameplay

I completed my tendencies last night for the New York Knicks and tested them in a CPU match.  I was pleasantly surprised with the results.

In previous Knicks simulations Carmelo Anthony would take 30+ shots while Amare Stoudemire took about 10, and the rest of the team even less than that.  Frustrating, because Melo and Amare had identical Shot & Touch tendencies (93 & 99 respectively).  Melo would post up on nearly every possession.  The reality is he isolates on 37% of his possessions (most in the league!) and posts up on only 13% of the time (a high mark for a SF, but certainly not every trip down the floor.   Amare/Melo both prefer to face the basket and attack!  The post ups (which is a league-wide problem) also drive down assist totals.  This is a Mike D'Antoni team and passing for 3pt shots and pick & rolls are the name of the game! 

Gameplay was set to Simulation setting.  All-Star difficulty on 12 minute quarters.

Ronny Turiaf: 6-4-1-0-3-1-24 (3-4 FG)
Amare Stoudemire: 12-7-4-0-0-0-35 (4-11 FG, 4-6 FT)
Carmelo Anthony: 22-6-3-1-1-0-36 (7-15 FG, 3-5 3PT, 5-6 FT)
Landry Fields: 14-9-4-0-1-0-35 (5-11 FG, 2-6 3PT, 2-2 FT)
Chauncey Billups: 18-4-7-0-1-1-32 (7-12 FG, 3-7 3PT, 1-1 FT)
Toney Douglas: 10-3-0-1-2-2-21 (3-6 FG, 2-4 3PT, 2-2 FT)
Jared Jeffries: 8-1-0-0-0-0-16 (4-4 FG, 0-1 FT)
Iman Shumpert: 6-0-1-0-0-0-8 (2-4 FG, 1-1 3PT, 1-2 FT)
Shawne Williams: 3-3-0-0-0-1-20 (1-3 FG, 1-2 3PT)
Bill Walker: 0-2-0-0-0-0-13 (0-1 FG, 0-1 3PT)
Josh Harrellson: 0-2-0-0-0-0-5 (0-1 FG, 0-2 FT)
Derrick Brown: DNP
TEAM: 99-41-20-2-8-48 (36-72 FG, 12-26 3PT, 15-22 FT)

Fields lead the team in scoring in the first half with 12 which was certainly a bright spot.  He didn't hesitate to take a three when left open.  Melo took over scoring in the second half to lead the team but on far fewer shots than previous simulations.  The scoring and shot distribution was much more balanced this time around.

The team was pitted against the Boston Celtics who will be the next team I complete all ratings and tendencies for.  They certainly need it as Paul Pierce scored 25 points on 27 shots.  Ray Allen was next with 23 points and only 13 shots, while Kevin Garnett took only 7 shots in 34 minutes (5-7 against Pierce's 8-27).  Jeff Green finished with 12 points on a perfect 5-5 shooting.

My tendencies & ratings lead to a more balanced attack for the Knicks and the featured player was whoever had the hot hand at the time.  Fields had 12 of his 14 in the first half while Melo had 10 of his 22 in the 4th quarter.  2K's tendencies & ratings on the other hand lead to a more scripted game as Paul Pierce was going to take a shot whether it was a good one or not.

The best part is these results can only improve.  I meant to edit each player's assigned plays but completely forgot as I wanted to test the tendencies out ASAP.  I will run another simulation with those tweaks (if there are any).  Completing the opposing team's ratings/tendencies/plays should also help.

Another thing I should also try is the gameplay on Default setting rather than Simulation.  Shot sliders are down on the sim setting but the CPU will also not attempt on ball steals which lead to a very low amount of steals and turnovers.  The Celtics are a superb defensive team with one of the league's best ball hawks at PG yet didn't disrupt much of the Knicks' offensive flow.  A combination of both slider settings will probably generate more realistic gameplay.  Finally, I will also test out a Human vs CPU game to see if the CPU reacts any differently towards a user than it's fellow CPU.

I will upload another roster later tonight so you guys can run your own tests.  Only one team has completed rating/tendencies so far but that will change over the coming weeks.

Sunday, October 16, 2011

NBA 2K12 Post Up Tendencies & Synergy Data

I've started the ground work on my player tendencies and have come across some disturbing trends among NBA 2K12's defaults.  One thing I've noticed from watching and playing against the CPU in NBA 2K12 is that players post up much more than they do in real life. I've seen CPU Derrick Rose score twice in the post during a game, which is something he did twice ALL SEASON.  Naturally the Post Up tendency was one of the first I wanted to check out.

Post Up data compiled from the highly recommended Synergy Sports.

Minutes = Regular Season + Playoffs

Dwight Howard
99 Tendency
1113 Post Ups (59.0% of Offense)
16.73 PU Per 48 Minutes (3193 Minutes)

Zach Randolph
98 Tendency
714 Post Ups (39.9% of Offense)
10.58 PU Per 48 Minutes (3239 Minutes)

These two players post up more than anyone else in the league.  They are the bar for what a max rating should look like.

Amare Stoudemire
99 Tendency
246 Post Ups (12.0% of Offense)
3.93 PU Per 48 Minutes (3004 Minutes)

Amare Stoudemire posts up nowhere near as frequently yet he boasts an extremely high tendency (even higher than Randolph!)

Kwame Brown
94 Tendency
149 Post Ups (27.4% of Offense)
4.17 PU Per 48 Minutes (1714 Minutes)

I can understand a high tendency for Kwame since a great deal of his offense comes from the post.  However since he is a low volume scorer one can also make a case for him to have a low tendency since the frequency of his offense being used is not so great (though still more frequent than Amare Stoudemire).

Jason Collins
6 Tendency
7 Post Ups (5.2% of Offense)
0.44 PU Per 48 Minutes (751 Minutes)

It would appear going with the per minute # might be more prudent because percentage-wise Collins is posting up half as much as Amare.  Ultimately it depends on how other tendencies (specifically Shot and Touch) affect the Post tendency.

It also appears that 6 is the minimum post tendency 2K gave out, which doesn't quite make sense to me since 1 or 0 is used for most other attributes.  Collins certainly posts up more than say...

Derrick Rose
7 Tendency
9 Post Ups (0.3% of Offense)
0.11 PU Per 48 Minutes (3675 Minutes)

Rose has reportedly been working on his post game (although considering 2K rates all his post moves as "Good" why would he need to?) but until he starts showing it, even guys like Jason Collins should have higher tendencies.

D.J. Augustin
11 Tendency
0 Post Ups (0.0% of Offense)
0.00 PU Per 48 Minutes (2757 Minutes)

The diminutive Augustin never even posts up, yet boasts a higher tendency than the guy who inspired this post.

Kobe Bryant
98 Tendency
337 Post Ups (14.4% of Offense)
5.16 PU Per 48 Minutes (3133 Minutes)

Moving to the other side of the spectrum, Kobe posts up more than any other guard in the league.  While he doesn't post up nearly as much as Zach Randolph, he does so much more than Amare Stoudemire.

LeBron James
97 Tendency
205 Post Ups (8.1% of Offense)
2.46 PU Per 48 Minutes (3985 Minutes)

LeBron posts up far more than he is given credit for (and is actually successful when he does so), but there is obviously no way he can justifiably have a similar tendency to Kobe.

Dwyane Wade
73 Tendency
145 Post Ups (6.0% of Offense)
1.90 PU Per 48 Minutes (3652 Minutes)

Wade's tendency might be a bit more realistic for LeBron.  Until you consider that only 25 points separate Wade and Zach Randolph.  Both Heat players need to be considerably lower.  They are isolation players, not constant post threats!

Tyrus Thomas
15 Tendency
70 Post Ups (15.5% of Offense)

3.90 PU Per 48 Minutes (861 Minutes)

Tyrus posts up more than LeBron or Wade yet his Post tendency is only 4 points greater than Augustin.  He posts up as frequently as Amare Stoudemire yet 84 points separate them.


There is no rhyme or reason to this.  These are so poorly done it's an open question as to whether 2K even used Synergy to determine their tendencies or if they simply went with "feel" and the "honest" eyeball.  A Synergy subscription costs $30, which is half the price of one sold copy of NBA 2K. I shouldn't have to write this.

I am no statistician.  This is a basic application of elementary math that even SAT cheaters like Derrick Rose and Lamar Odom could do.  2K Sports for whatever reason has chosen to ignore mathematics whilst touting itself as an NBA simulation.  This is MIND BOGGLING.

Nitpicking these numbers does not make for a compelling read, nor is it very important to the average NBA 2K fan.  However what IS important to the average NBA 2K fan is the gameplay and for the past few years 2K's abominable tendencies have greatly hindered that end.  Rather than make improvements in these fields it seems like 2K is content with the status quo and then wondering why users complain once they get past the paid-off exclusive reviews (IGN) and find a buggy game that they paid 65 dollars to beta test.

(What other game in the world asks this of their fanbase year after year?)

Thursday, October 6, 2011

List of NBA 2K12 Team & NBA's Greatest Ratings

What do you think of the "NBA's Greatest" teams?  Which teams would you like to have seen?

Here's a list of the numerical team ratings (the actual number, not the team ranks) for the teams in NBA2K12.  Rather than use 2K's broken Overall rating (for teams), I've found that averaging the Offense and Defense ratings provides far greater accuracy.

94.5 Heat (99 Def, 90 Off, 89 Ovr)
83.5 Bulls (99 Def, 68 Off, 85 Ovr)
82.5 Celtics (85 Def, 80 Off, 86 Ovr)
81.0 Magic (87 Def, 75 Off, 81 Ovr)
80.0 Hawks (76 Def, 84 Off, 78 Ovr)
74.0 Knicks (61 Def, 87 Off, 74 Ovr)
74.0 76ers (79 Def, 69 Off, 75 Ovr)
71.5 Pacers (78 Def, 65 Off, 73 Ovr)
70.0 Bucks (80 Def, 60 Off, 73 Ovr)
66.5 Pistons (60 Def, 73 Off, 69 Ovr)
63.0 Cavaliers (66 Def, 60 Off, 66 Ovr)
63.0 Raptors (66 Def, 60 Off, 64 Ovr)
62.0 Wizards (64 Def, 60 Off, 68 Ovr)
62.0 Nets (64 Def, 60 Off, 67 Ovr)
62.0 Bobcats (64 Def, 60 Off, 64 Ovr)

The East's Top 9 is down to a T when you look beyond the overall rating.  It's clear that Miami is extremely overrated.  In my most recent sim they went 73-9.  They're good, but they're not that good.  Cavaliers on the surface might seem overrated but it's often forgotten they were a decent team for a month and a half until Anderson Varejao got hurt.  Bobcats also come out low, but they also traded Stephen Jackson (83) for Corey Maggette (74).

89.0 Mavericks (79 Def, 99 Off, 84 Ovr)
85.5 Spurs (87 Def, 84 Off, 81 Ovr)
83.5 Nuggets (70 Def, 97 Off, 80 Ovr)
83.0 Grizzlies (77 Def, 89 Off, 84 Ovr)
82.0 Lakers (89 Def, 75 Off, 86 Ovr)
80.0 Thunder (77 Def, 83 Off, 83 Ovr)
79.0 Suns (74 Def, 86 Off, 78 Ovr)
75.0 Hornets (80 Def, 70 Off, 77 Ovr)
73.0 Jazz (73 Def, 73 Off, 78 Ovr)
73.0 Warriors (65 Def, 81 Off, 74 Ovr)
71.5 Trailblazers (77 Def, 66 Off, 80 Ovr)
70.0 Clippers (71 Def, 69 Off, 76 Ovr)
69.0 Rockets (74 Def, 64 Off, 75 Ovr)
62.5 Kings (65 Def, 60 Off, 69 Ovr)
60.0 Timberwolves (60 Def, 60 Off, 63 Ovr)

The West is more of a mixed bag.  Nuggets and Grizzlies better than Lakers and Thunder?   During a 3 year association simulation, Nuggets went to the NBA Finals once and the Conference Finals twice.  Hornets with healthy David West worse than the Suns?  Warriors better than the Blazers with healthy Greg Oden and Raymond Felton replacing Andre Miller?

99.0 East All-Stars (99 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
96.5 West All-Stars (94 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
70.0 Rookies (60 Def, 80 Off, 71 Ovr)
74.5 Sophomores (84 Def, 65 Off, 76 Ovr)
99.0 NBA 2K (99 Def, 99 Off, 95 Ovr)
99.0 2K Sports (99 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
98.0 VC (97 Def, 99 Off, 92 Ovr)
97.0 2K China (95 Def, 99 Off, 97 Ovr)

Rookies and Sophs are last year's R/S (meaning the Rookie team will be the Sophs when the real rookies sign contracts).  The last 4 teams are unlockable w/ the following codes.

payrespect - Unlocks ABA ball

I'm not sure who actually uses those teams (aside from the 2K devs themselves) and I would hate to think a substantial amount of time goes into a feature that the fans hardly use.

99.0 [64-65 Celtics] (99 Def, 99 Off, 98 Ovr)
95.0 [64-65 Lakers] (94 Def, 96 Off, 95 Ovr)
97.5 [70-71 Bucks] (96 Def, 99 Off, 97 Ovr)
95.0 [70-71 Lakers] (91 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
92.0 [70-71 Hawks] (85 Def, 99 Off, 92 Ovr)
96.0 [71-72 Lakers] (93 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
96.5 [71-72 Knicks] (95 Def, 98 Off, 95 Ovr)
96.5 [76-77 76ers] (94 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
94.5 [84-85 76ers] (94 Def, 95 Off, 93 Ovr)
91.5 [84-85 Bucks] (91 Def, 92 Off, 92 Ovr)
83.5 [85-86 Bulls] (81 Def, 88 Off, 85 Ovr)
99.0 [85-86 Celtics] (99 Def, 99 Off, 98 Ovr)
79.5 [85-86 Hawks] (80 Def, 79 Off, 81 Ovr)
98.5 [86-87 Lakers] (98 Def, 99 Off, 98 Ovr)
97.0 [88-89 Pistons] (95 Def, 99 Off, 95 Ovr)
93.5 [88-89 Bulls] (85 Def, 98 Off, 91 Ovr)
90.0 [89-90 Cavaliers] (84 Def, 96 Off, 89 Ovr)
95.0 [90-91 Bulls] (92 Def, 98 Off, 94 Ovr)
97.0 [90-91 Lakers] (95 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
92.0 [90-91 Trailblazers] (89 Def, 95 Off, 92 Ovr)
91.0 [90-91 Warriors] (85 Def, 97 Off, 90 Ovr)
95.0 [92-93 Bulls] (94 Def, 96 Off, 95 Ovr)
91.5 [92-93 Hornets] (85 Def, 98 Off, 90 Ovr)
94.5 [93-94 Rockets] (90 Def, 99 Off, 93 Ovr)
88.0 [93-94 Nuggets] (86 Def, 90 Off, 88 Ovr)
92.0 [94-95 Knicks] (92 Def, 92 Off, 92 Ovr)
96.0 [94-95 Magic] (93 Def, 99 Off, 95 Ovr)
97.0 [95-96 Bulls] (95 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
95.0 [95-96 Supersonics] (97 Def, 93 Off, 94 Ovr)
97.5 [97-98 Bulls] (96 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
92.0 [97-98 Jazz] (91 Def, 93 Off, 91 Ovr)
93.5 [97-98 Lakers] (92 Def, 95 Off, 93 Ovr)
94.0 [97-98 Spurs] (95 Def, 93 Off, 93 Ovr)
93.5 [01-02 Kings] (88 Def, 99 Off, 93 Ovr)

You know offensive ratings are out of wack when the 94 Rockets and 95 Knicks are better offensive teams than they are defensive teams.  All of these teams with the exception of the 86 Hawks (79) and 86 Bulls (88) are 90+ offensively.  Some of these teams were stacked offensively (1991 & 1996 Bulls, 1998 Jazz) but that certainly wasn't the case with the 95 Knicks (#1 Defense, #16 Defense), or 94 Rockets (#1 Defense, #15 Offense)   They were one star teams that played some of the toughest defense ever played.  The 93 Hornets, while a popular team, were not a great team, only winning 44 games (5th in the east), with the #9 Offense (rated 98?) and #19 Defense (rated 85?).

Obviously it's very cool that these teams were added and they were meant to add some fun to the game, but the one thing I've noticed is that defense is impossible in these games as players simply don't miss shots even when you do defend them well.  Offensive ratings are much too high, and in many cases, various liberties were taken to "enhance" the user experience.  As with every other 2K game, it will be up to roster editors to fix the mess 2K has created to make the game as enjoyable as it was meant to be (for most players).

Rather than nitpick here I think it would be great to make featured posts highlighting various teams.

NBA 2K12 List of NBA's Greatest Player Ratings

There are 34 Retro teams in NBA 2K12, unlocked by completing the "NBA's Greatest" challenges.

What teams would you have liked to see, and why?

NOTE: Some teams are missing a key player here or there (most notably the 85 Sixers who are missing Charles Barkley).  If a team does not have 12 players on the roster a generic player will take the spot: Michael Davis, David Miller, John Brown, William Jones, Robert Williams, James Smith, or Richard Johnson.

64-65 Boston Celtics
97 - Bill Russell (C)
89 - Sam Jones (SG)
87 - John Havlicek (SF)
84 - Tom Sanders (PF)
81 - Tom Heinsohn (PF)
81 - K.C. Jones (PG)
70 - Larry Siegfried (PG)
60 - Mel Counts (C)
52 - John Thompson (C)

64-65 Los Angeles Lakers
94 - Elgin Baylor (SF)
91 - Jerry West (PG)
83 - Rudy LaRusso (PF)
80 - Dick Barnett (SG)
66 - LeRoy Ellis (C)
65 - Don Nelson (SF)
64 - Walt Hazzard (PG)
63 - Darrall Imhoff (C)
62 - Jim King (SG)

70-71 Milwaukee Bucks
97 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (C)
94 - Oscar Robertson (PG)
88 - Bob Dandridge (SF)
73 - Greg Smith (PF)
72 - Bob Boozer (PF)
72 - Jon McGlocklin (SG)
70 - Lucius Allen (PG)
60 - Dick Cunningham (C)

70-71 Los Angeles Lakers
94 - Wilt Chamberlain (C)
92 - Jerry West (PG)
85 - Gail Goodrich (SG)
76 - Elgin Baylor (SF)
74 - Keith Erickson (SF)
72 - Jim McMillian (SF)
61 - Rick Roberson (C)
61 - Willie McCarter

70-71 Atlanta Hawks
86 - Lou Hudson (SF)
85 - Pete Maravich (SG)
80 - Walt Bellamy (C)
80 - Bill Bridges (PF)
77 - Walt Hazzard (PG)
67 - Jerry Chambers (SF)
61 - Len Chappell (PF)
61 - Jim Davis (C)

71-72 Los Angeles Lakers
93 - Wilt Chamberlain (C)
90 - Jerry West (PG)
87 - Gail Goodrich (SG)
77 - Jim McMillian (SF)
76 - Elgin Baylor (SF)
73 - Keith Erickson (SF)
70 - Flynn Robinson (PG)
62 - LeRoy Ellis (C)

71-72 New York Knicks
89 - Walt Frazier (PG)
87 - Jerry Lucas (PF)
85 - Dave DeBusschere (PF)
83 - Willis Reed (C)
78 - Earl Monroe (PG)
77 - Bill Bradley (SF)
74 - Dick Barnett (SG)
70 - Phil Jackson (PF)
51 - Luther Rackley (C)

76-77 Philadelphia 76ers
96 - Julius Erving (SF)
93 - George McGinnis (PF)
81 - Doug Collins (SG)
80 - World B. Free (PG)
80 - Henry Bibby (PG)
73 - Steve Mix (PF)
73 - Darryl Dawkins (C)
72 - Joe Bryant (SF)
67 - Harvey Catchings (C)
63 - Mike Dunleavy (PG)

84-85 Philadelphia 76ers
94 - Moses Malone (C)
93 - Julius Erving (SF)
83 - Maurice Cheeks (PG)
74 - Bobby Jones (SF)
71 - Clint Richardson (SG)
67 - George Johnson (PF)
66 - Clemon Johnson (C)

84-85 Milwaukee Bucks
91 - Sidney Moncrief (SG)
89 - Terry Cummings (PF)
86 - Paul Pressey (SG)
76 - Ricky Pierce (SF)
72 - Mike Dunleavy (PG)
68 - Alton Lister (C)
66 - Craig Hodges (PG)
63 - Charles Davis (SF)
60 - Randy Breuer (C)
57 - Paul Mokeski (C)

85-86 Chicago Bulls
92 - Michael Jordan (SG)
81 - George Gervin (SF)
81 - Orlando Woolridge (SF)
73 - Charles Oakley (PF)
68 - John Paxson (PG)
66 - Rod Higgins (SF)
66 - Sidney Green (PF)
66 - Kyle Macy (PG)
62 - Dave Corzine (C)

85-86 Boston Celtics
97 - Larry Bird (SF)
88 - Kevin McHale (PF)
86 - Robert Parish (C)
80 - Dennis Johnson (PG)
77 - Bill Walton (C)
74 - Danny Ainge (SG)
73 - Scott Wedman (SF)
64 - Jerry Sichting (PG)
63 - Sam Vincent (PG)

85-86 Atlanta Hawks
93 - Dominique Wilkins (SF)
76 - Doc Rivers (PG)
73 - Kevin Willis PF)
71 - Spud Webb (PG)
68 - Randy Wittman (SG)
66 - Antoine Carr (PF)
66 - Cliff Levingston (PF)
65 - Eddie Johnson (PG) - Interesting typo: 9 years pro, Age 8
62 - Tree Rollins (C)
59 - Jon Koncak (C)
52 - Scott Hastings (PF)

86-87 Los Angeles Lakers
95 - Magic Johnson (PG)
85 - James Worthy (SF)
84 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (C)
83 - Byron Scott (SG)
82 - Michael Cooper (SG)
75 - A.C. Green (PF)
67 - Kurt Rambis (PF)
66 - Billy Thompson
64 - Mychal Thompson
62 - Frank Brickowski

88-89 Detroit Pistons
91 - Isiah Thomas (PG)
89 - Joe Dumars (SG)
80 - Mark Aguirre (SF)
79 - Bill Laimbeer (C)
78 - Dennis Rodman (PF)
77 - Vinnie Johnson (SG)
70 - Darryl Dawkins (C)
65 - Rick Mahorn (C)
64 - John Salley (PF)
61 - James Edwards (C)

88-89 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
82 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
77 - Horace Grant (PF)
71 - Bill Cartwright (C)
69 - John Paxson (PG)
68 - Craig Hodges (PG)
68 - Sam Vincent (PG)
62 - Charles Davis (PF)
60 - Dave Corzine (C)
57 - Brad Sellers (C)
53 - Will Perdue (C)

89-90 Cleveland Cavaliers
84 - Mark Price (PG)
82 - Brad Daugherty (C)
79 - Larry Nance (SF)
76 - John Williams (PF)
75 - Craig Ehlo (SG)
70 - Reggie Williams (SF)
68 - Steve Kerr (PG)
61 - Tree Rollins (C)
52 - Paul Mokeski

90-91 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan
89 - Scottie Pippen
82 - Horace Grant
71 - John Paxson (PG)
69 - B.J. Armstrong (PG)
67 - Craig Hodges (PG)
66 - Bill Cartwright (C)
64 - Cliff Levingston (PF)
62 - Stacey King (PF)
61 - Will Perdue (C)
60 - Scott Williams (PF)

90-91 Los Angeles Lakers
95 - Magic Johnson (PG)
87 - James Worthy (SF)
79 - Byron Scott (SG)
77 - Vlade Divac (C)
75 - Sam Perkins (PF)
74 - A.C. Green (PF)
66 - Larry Drew (PG)
64 - Elden Campbell (C)
59 - Mychal Thompson (C)

90-91 Portland Trailblazers
92 - Clyde Drexler (SG)
85 - Terry Porter (PG)
81 - Jerome Kersey (SF)
75 - Buck Williams (PF)
74 - Cliff Robinson (PF)
73 - Danny Ainge (SG)
72 - Drazen Petrovic (SG)
71 - Kevin Duckworth (C)
57 - Mark Bryant (PF)

90-91 Golden State Warriors
90 - Chris Mullin (SF)
90 - Mitch Richmond (SG)
90 - Tim Hardaway (PG)
76 - Sarunas Marciulionis (SG)
72 - Rod Higgins (SF)
67 - Mario Elie (SG)
64 - Alton Lister (C)
63 - Tom Tolbert (PF)
60 - Vincent Askew (SG)
52 - Paul Mokeski (C)

92-93 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
90 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
83 - Horace Grant (PF)
71 - B.J. Armstrong (PG)
67 - Rodney McCray (SF)
67 - John Paxson (PG)
65 - Bill Cartwright (C)
64 - Stacey King (PF)
63 - Scott Williams (PF)
61 - Will Perdue (C)
57 - Ed Nealy (PF)

92-93 Charlotte Hornets
89 - Alonzo Mourning (C)
89 - Larry Johnson (PF)
81 - Kendall Gill (SG)
81 - Mugsey Bogues (PG)
75 - Dell Curry (SG)
72 - Johnny Newman (SF)
70 - David Wingate (SG)
66 - Kenny Gattison (PF)
65 - Sidney Green (PF)
58 - Tony Bennett (PG)
55 - Kevin Lynch (SG)

93-94 Houston Rockets
97 - Hakeem Olajuwon (C)
80 - Otis Thorpe (PF)
77 - Vernon Maxwell (SG)
75 - Sam Cassell (PG)
75 - Robert Horry (SF)
74 - Kenny Smith (PG)
71 - Mario Elie (SG)
66 - Scott Brooks (PG)
57 - Matt Bullard (PF)

93-94 Denver Nuggets
85 - Dikembe Mutombo (C)
82 - Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (PG)
80 - Laphonso Ellis (PF)
79 - Reggie Williams (SF)
78 - Bryant Stith (SG)
73 - Robert Pack (PG)
72 - Rodney Rogers (PF)
63 - Tom Hammonds (PF)

94-95 New York Knicks
93 - Patrick Ewing (C)
82 - John Starks (SG)
78 - Charles Oakley (PF)
76 - Anthony Mason (SF)
73 - Doug Christie (SG)
73 - Greg Anthony (PG)
72 - Derek Harper (PG)
68 - Charles Smith (PF)
67 - Hubert Davis (SG)
65 - Monty Williams (SF)
62 - Anthony Bonner (PF)
58 - Herb Williams (C)

94-95 Orlando Magic
94 - Shaquille O'Neal (C)
86 - Penny Hardaway (PG)
82 - Horace Grant (PF)
81 - Nick Anderson (SG)
74 - Dennis Scott (SF)
69 - Anthony Bowie (SG)
69 - Donald Royal (SF)
68 - Brian Shaw (PG)
64 - Jeff Turner (SF)
59 - Tree Rollins (C)

95-96 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
92 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
84 - Dennis Rodman (PF)
76 - Toni Kukoc (SF)
74 - Ron Harper (PG)
69 - Steve Kerr (PG)
63 - John Salley (PF)
63 - Luc Longley (C)
60 - Jud Buechler (SG)
58 - Dickey Simpkins (PF)
57 - Bill Wennington (C)
53 - James Edwards (C)

95-96 Seattle Supersonics
90 - Shawn Kemp (PF)
90 - Gary Payton (PG)
80 - Detlef Schrempf (SF)
80 - Hersey Hawkins (SG)
73 - Sam Perkins (PF)
72 - Nate McMillian (PG)
71 - David Wingate (SG)
66 - Vincent Askew (SG)
63 - Ervin Johnson (C)
59 - Frank Brickowski (PF)

97-98 Chicago Bulls

99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
88 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
85 - Dennis Rodman (PF)
77 - Toni Kukoc (SF)
74 - Ron Harper (PG)
69 - Steve Kerr (PG)
67 - Luc Longley (C)
60 - Jud Buechler (SG)
58 - Dickey Simpkins (PF)
56 - Bill Wennington (C)

97-98 Utah Jazz
93 - Karl Malone (PF)
87 - John Stockton (PG)
81 - Jeff Hornacek (SG)
74 - Shandon Anderson (SF)
73 - Bryon Russell (SF)
69 - Howard Eisley (PG)
65 - Antoine Carr (PF)
64 - Greg Ostertag (C)
61 - Adam Keefe (SF)
56 - Greg Foster (PF)

97-98 Los Angeles Lakers
95 - Shaquille O'Neal (C)
85 - Eddie Jones (SG)
80 - Kobe Bryant (SG)
77 - Robert Horry (PF)
72 - Elden Campbell (C)
69 - Jon Barry (SG)
68 - Derek Fisher (PG)
58 - Corie Blount (PF)

97-98 San Antonio Spurs
93 - David Robinson (C)
89 - Tim Duncan (PF)
76 - Vinny Del Negro (SG)
76 - Avery Johnson (PG)
75 - Sean Elliott (SF)
69 - Jaren Jackson (SG)
67 - Monty Williams (SF)
67 - Chuck Person (SF)
61 - Will Perdue (C)

01-02 Sacramento Kings
93 - Chris Webber (PF)
81 - Vlade Divac (C)
81 - Peja Stojakovic (SF)
81 - Doug Christie (SG)
77 - Bobby Jackson (PG)
77 - Mike Bibby (PG)
71 - Hedo Turkoglu (SF)
68 - Gerald Wallace (SF)
63 - Lawrence Funderburke (PF)
60 - Scot Pollard (C)

Monday, October 3, 2011

NBA 2K12 Small Forward Ratings + Changes



TOP 1-10
98 - LeBron James
92 - Kevin Durant
91 - Carmelo Anthony
86 - Rudy Gay
83 - Gerald Wallace
82 - Paul Pierce
81 - Danny Granger
81 - Caron Butler
80 - Grant Hill
80 - Wilson Chandler

Carmelo Anthony is perhaps the league's most overrated superstar, and his 2K rating is indicitive of that.  His shot selection is awful and his defense even worse.   Allegedly one of the league's clutchest offensive players, there are plenty of forced turnovers he commits by trying to play hero ball.  The Knicks were a sub .500 team after trading for Melo, and were notably swept in the playoffs, with Melo only showing up for one of the games.  Melo simply does not hold a candle to Kevin Durant, who is already a 2x scoring champ and 2x All-NBA First teamer at the young age of 22.  The scary thing is Durant still has PLENTY of time to improve, whereas Melo at 26, doesn't stand to get much better (which is not a good prospect for the NY Knick defense).

Rudy Gay joins Andre Iguodala as another super athlete with overrated skills that has never made an all-star team.  Gay missed half of the season and the Grizzlies didn't even skip a beat, beating a 1st seed Spurs team and taking the Thunder to 7 games.  Does that sound like a team who was missing an 86 rated player?

Caron Butler missed 53 regular season games and the entire playoffs, but still went up in rating.  Butler's shooting efficiency fell off a cliff in 2010 and stayed that way in 2010 so it will be interesting to see where this boost came from.

Wilson Chandler is the top rated Nugget and he just signed in China for a mere 3 million.  I think that says it all about that rating's legitimacy.

TOP 11-20
78 - Shawn Marion
78 - Michael Beasley
77 - Luol Deng
77 - Shane Battier
77 - Tayshaun Prince
74 - Thaddeus Young
74 - Corey Maggette
74 - Andrei Kirilenko
74 - Hedo Turkoglu
74 - Rashard Lewis

Shane Battier is a bit high considering his defense has slipped a little bit with age, and thinking of Turkoglu as a top 20 SF is a bit laughable, but overall no major complaints.

TOP 21-30
74 - Nicolas Batum
74 - Paul George
74 - Dorell Wright
72 - Richard Jefferson
72 - Trevor Ariza
72 - Terrence Williams
72 - Jared Dudley
72 - Mickael Pietrus
71 - Ron Artest
71 - Matt Barnes

Here is where the **** hits the fan.  Ron Artest is not a good offensive player, but he is easily the best defensive SF in the league (right up there with 1st teamer LeBron).  It's tough to imagine a world where he is worse than Dorell Wright who likewise stands in a corner on offense and isn't nearly the defender Artest is.

Terrence Williams is rated equally to Richard Jefferson and Trevor Ariza.  I don't need to elaborate here.

Mickael Pietrus could not crack the rotation in Orlando and Phoenix, but we're expected to believe he is a top 30 SF.

TOP 31-40
71 - Quentin Richardson
70 - Joey Graham
70 - Josh Childress
70 - Martell Webster
70 - Maurice Evans
69 - Josh Howard
69 - Chase Budinger
69 - Damion James
69 - Al-Farouq Aminu
69 - Chris Douglas-Roberts

The insanity continues.   CDR barely got off the bench after Carlos Delfino came back yet is the top rated SF on the team.  CDR signed internationally without an out-clause, so at least we won't have to live with the rating incompetence for long.

Joey Graham likewise was a 3rd string on the Cavs and is the highest rated SF on the team.  Few teams in the league would take him over Jamario Moon.  Aminu was brutal as a rookie and likewise did not outplay Moon.

TOP 41-50
69 - Francisco Garcia
68 - Sam Young
68 - C.J. Miles
67 - Danilo Gallinari
67 - Andres Nocioni
67 - Alonzo Gee
67 - Jamario Moon
67 - Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
67 - James Posey
67 - James Anderson

That's right folks.  Danilo Gallinari isn't a top 40 SF.  In fact, he rates 13 points worse than his backup, Wilson Chandler, and 24 points worse than the guy who replaced him in NY.  In case you are wondering, 23 points separate Steve Nash and Jannero Pargo.  Talk to Knick and Nugget fans about that and see what they tell you.  Gallinari is rated equally to Nocioni which really says it all.  Hell, he isn't rated any better than the worst starters at the position (Gee and Prince MAM), or guys who couldn't even get off their team's benches (Posey and Anderson).

TOP 51-60
67 - Sonny Weems
66 - Travis Outlaw
66 - Al Thornton
65 - Carlos Delfino
65 - Marvin Williams
65 - Dominic McGuire
65 - Cartier Martin
65 - Gary Forbes
65 - Derrick Brown
64 - Renaldo Balkman

Carlos Delfino being rated this low is an absolute joke if you've watched him as a member of the Bucks.  Marvin Williams' rating is likewise just as bad although you won't find many people jumping up to defend him.  Both players are easily far superior to D-League fodder like Dominic McGuire and Cartier Martin.

TOP 61-70
64 - Earl Clark
64 - Reggie Williams
63 - Gordon Hayward
63 - Luke Walton
63 - Devin Ebanks
63 - Ime Udoka
62 - Ryan Gomes
62 - Daniel Green
62 - Linas Kleiza
62 - James Johnson

Gordon Hayward showed at the end of the season that at the very least he is a much better player than a hobbled Luke Walton and a 2nd round Laker rookie with no BBall IQ.

Ryan Gomes started most of the year for the Clippers.  Ime Udoka spent most of the year outside of the league.  Facts like these are lost on 2K Sports.  The same applies for Linas Kleiza and James Johnson as it pertains to Daniel Green for that matter.

TOP 71-80
61 - Julian Wright
61 - Damien Wilkins
61 - Shawne Williams
61 - Mike Harris
61 - Omri Casspi
60 - Christian Eyenga
60 - Dante Cunningham
60 - Donte Greene
59 - Austin Daye
59 - Peja Stojakovic

Austin Daye and Peja Stojakovic are worse than Donte Greene, Shawne Williams, Christian Eyenga, and don't even register as top 75 as the position.  2K Sports: If it's in the game, don't look at us man.

TOP 81-95
59 - Luke Babbitt
59 - Bobby Simmons
58 - James Jones
58 - Rasual Butler
58 - Lazar Hayward
58 - DeMarre Carroll
58 - Rodney Carney
58 - Quincy Pondexter
57 - Patrick Ewing Jr.
57 - Stephen Graham
57 - Jawad Williams
56 - DaJuan Summers
55 - Sasha Pavlovic
55 - Ronald Dupree
53 - Jason Kapono

Luke Babbitt = Bobby Simmons = Austin Daye = Peja Stojakovic

Babbitt & Simmons > James Jones

Logical equations you won't find in any math textbook.  BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT LOGICAL.


LeBron James
98 Overall (+2)
97 Overall 2K11 (+1)
97 Inside (+2)
83 Close (+6)
86 Mid (+5)
79 3pt (+5)
76 FT (-1)

LeBron quietly has become one of the league's top mid-range shooters.  He shot 45% which was up from 40% the two previous years.  While he has surely improved his jumper since entering the league, some of this probably had to do with Wade and Bosh playing on his team.  LeBron couldn't really be triple teamed like he was in Cleveland.... although this did NOT help Wade's shooting numbers.  It is probably a little of both, and we'll find out this season whether it was a fluke or not.  One thing that IS clear however is that LeBron's shot ratings were underrated for much of last season.

Kevin Durant
92 Overall (-1)
94 Overall 2K11 (+1)
95 Inside (+2)
86 Close (+1)
85 Mid (-1)
81 3pt (+5)
88 FT (0)

Durant only hit 40% of his mid-range shots, so this causes a large discrepancy in the LeBron/Kobe debate.  LeBron is 5% better but only 1 rating point better.  Kobe was only 2% worse and 7 points worse.  All three players were among the leaders in mid-range attempts, so something is surely amiss with these ratings here.

Carmelo Anthony
91 Overall (-1)
93 Overall 2K11 (+1)
87 Inside (-3)
82 Close (+5)
90 Mid (+7)
84 3pt (+5)
84 FT (0)

Well, it's honestly a little baffling how Melo got a reputation boost but Kobe did not.  Melo shot 43% from mid-range as a Nugget and only 40% as a Knick.  Melo only shot 40% in 2010 and 39% in 2009.  He is clearly overrated when looking at where everyone else has fallen on the scale.  Melo's Close rating is also a bit high for someone who only shot 26% (32% as Nugget) from 3-9 feet and 37% (38% as Nugget) from 10-15 feet.

Rudy Gay
86 Overall (-1)
87 Overall 2K11 (0)
86 Inside (+7)
85 Close (-5)
79 Mid (-3)
86 3pt (+4)
81 FT (+3)

Back to some normalcy.  Gay shot 39% from mid-range and his 79 mid-range falls right in line with Kobe's.  2K clearly has a scale in there somewhere but their implementation is spotty at best.

Gerald Wallace
83 Overall (-1)
85 Overall 2K11 (+2)
85 Inside (-3)
72 Close (+22)
70 Mid (+1)
79 3pt (+2)
75 FT (+1)

Crash shot 40% from mid-range as a Blazer (1.9 attempts) and 37% as a Bobcat (3.6 attempts).  Overall he was 81-215 (37.8%).  It's good that 2K took sample size and attempts into account... since otherwise people would be freaking out about Kobe and Gerald Wallace being rated equally in mid-range.  Unfortunately, this does little to explain Crash's Close rating - he was 23-76 (30%) from 3-9 feet and a mere 3-13 (23%) from 10-15 feet.  Very difficult to see the rationale behind a 22 point increase in that category.

Paul Pierce
82 Overall (-1)
84 Overall 2K11 (+1)
93 Inside (+6)
84 Close (+5)
80 Mid (-4)
84 3pt (+5)
86 FT (0)

Pierce's ratings are pretty standard.  He shot 42% from mid-range but on only 2.8 attempts.

Danny Granger
81 Overall (-1)
81 Overall 2K11 (-1)
83 Inside (-2)
71 Close (-7)??? (Rating indiscernible in video, I'll find out in 24 hours)
75 Mid (-4)
86 3pt (+6)
85 FT (+1)

Granger shot only 35% from mid-range but did so on 4.3 attempts, and there isn't much to say about him right now since I was unable to get a good visual on his close rating.

Caron Butler
81 Overall (0)
83 Overall 2K11 (+2)
77 Inside (-1)
78 Close (+5)
88 Mid (+9)
75 3pt (+11)
77 FT (-8)

Butler's 3pt rating skyrocketed which is partially due to the 3pt scale boost, but also because Butler shot a high percentage in his 29 games played.   He shot 45% from mid-range in 2011, but perhaps more importantly, also shot 45% in 483 attempts in 2010.  Of course, Butler's rating (88) doesn't exactly match up with LeBron's rating (85) and body of work (45% on 424 attempts).

Grant Hill
80 Overall (-2)
81 Overall 2K11 (-1)
90 Inside (-3)
83 Close (-4)
72 Mid (-12)
84 3pt (+5)
83 FT (+1)

It will be very interesting to see how these ratings play out in the game as Hill's 3pt rating has drawn a lot of concern.  Hill shot 40% from deep this season and 44% last season, but did so in a limited sample size.  Hill mainly takes only open set shots which limits his total attempts.  The concern is whether he will be dropping multple threes per game with an 84 rating.  Hill averaged a career high 0.6 threes per game this past season.

Wilson Chandler
80 Overall (0)
81 Overall 2K11 (+1)
89 Inside (+7)
71 Close (-5)
75 Mid (0)
82 3pt (+4)
81 FT (+1)

China man Wilson Chandler shot 40% from mid-range on 3.7 attempts (37% on 2.6 attempts as a Knick).


Honestlly there wasn't anything discovered about the new shot ratings that we didn't already figure out from the list of SG rating changes.  As with the PGs and SGs, overall ratings didn't change all that drastically with this new formula, and if anything the SFs were the least affected by it.

Saturday, October 1, 2011

NBA 2K12 Shooting Guard Ratings + Changes

Shooting guard ratings have always been a weak point for 2K Sports as their formula is generally broken.  Teams value shooting and defense from this position, while 2K seems to think it is ball handling ability (which is why many PGs in the league rate even higher as a SG than they do as a PG).  As such, many starting players end up with lower ratings than the players coming off the bench behind them.



TOP 1-10
96 - Dwyane Wade
94 - Kobe Bryant
85 - Manu Ginobili
85 - Andre Iguodala
84 - Joe Johnson
83 - Stephen Jackson
83 - Monta Ellis
82 - Eric Gordon
80 - Ray Allen
80 - Tyreke Evans

The 4th best SG in the league has never even been to an all-star game.  Another year of Iguodala being absurdly overrated (nevermind the fact that he didn't even play SG last year).  You can say that about Stephen Jackson too, as he is ridiculously overrated for a player who can't score the ball efficiently at all.  No other SG in the top 10 approaches anything nearly as bad as Jackson's annual 40-42% shooting.  Tyreke Evans had a nightmare season and while this was partially due to injury, I don't think anyone would take him over the #11 player.

TOP 11-20
79 - Kevin Martin
78 - Brandon Roy
78 - Jamal Crawford
77 - O.J. Mayo
76 - Jason Terry
76 - J.R. Smith
76 - Vince Carter
76 - Richard Hamilton
74 - Ben Gordon
74 - James Harden

Kevin Martin is one of the league's best scorers, significantly more efficient than Jackson, Monta, Iguodala, Joe Johnson, and Eric Gordon.  Why he trails these players by 3-6 points is anyone's guess.  Martin may not be the world's strongest defender, but neither is Monta Ellis.

Shooting guard is an interesting position in that many of the top players are sixth men (SEVEN of the top twenty to be exact).  That said, not all of these players are accurately rated.

Brandon Roy's career quickly turned into a tragic train wreck, and he is no longer the best SG on his own team.  Roy had a big game against Dallas but was invisible the rest of the series.  This is not a player who is the 12th best at his position anymore.

Jamal Crawford regressed from his career best 2010, when he was named sixth man of the year.  Nobody is taking him over Jason Terry ever again.

O.J. Mayo was awful this season and has not lived up to the potential 2K thought he had AT ALL.  His mediocre athleticism means he isn't a great finisher at the basket, and defensively he is nowhere close to Tony Allen's (who definitely should be on the top 20 based on last season's performance).

As with the other sixth men, Ben Gordon did not have a good year and looks like a shell of his former self.  He is far more likely to score 3 points than he is 30.  The Bulls correctly deduced that he was a one-trick pony and while not re-signing him in 2009 was unpopular, it ultimately gave the Bulls the cap space needed in 2010 to build a deep team in free agency.

TOP 21-30
74 - Marcus Thornton
73 - Wesley Matthews
73 - Jason Richardson
73 - Nick Young
73 - Dahntay Jones
72 - John Salmons
72 - Shannon Brown
71 - Arron Afflalo
71 - Landry Fields
71 - Evan Turner

Dahntay Jones has barely played over the last few years but that is hardly his fault.  Indiana has chosen not to use him in favor of 3pt shooters like Mike Dunleavy, and Jones always performs as expected when he is called upon.  That said, he is really only a role player and he rated too high even when he was being used properly.  He is basically Wesley Matthews without a jumper.

I consider it pretty laughable that Evan Turner had a worse season than Landry Fields, but also acknowledge that Turner still has a much higher ceiling.  Fields won't get much better than what he is now, while Turner is just biding time until an Iguodala trade.

TOP 31-40
71 - Leandro Barbosa
70 - Wesley Johnson
70 - Courtney Lee
70 - DeShawn Stevenson
69 - Rodrique Beaubois
69 - Gerald Henderson
69 - DeMar DeRozan
69 - Michael Redd
69 - Tracy McGrady
69 - Ronnie Brewer

Another year of Leandro Barbosa as the Raptors' top rated player.  DeMar DeRozan isn't exactly an all-around force, but Barbosa hasn't exactly played all that well of late either.

Beaubois is listed at SG because he started next to Kidd late in the year before getting hurt again.  He should be moved to PG since the Mavs have like 6 SGs on the team.  His rating will drop appropriately to a Barea-like level (by the way, can we stop pretending Barea is all that much better than Beaubois?  He's really not).

TOP 41-50
68 - Tony Allen
68 - Keith Bogans
68 - Randy Foye
68 - Raja Bell
68 - Thabo Sefolosha
67 - Anthony Parker
67 - Willie Green
67 - Sasha Vujacic
66 - Jordan Crawford
66 - Corey Brewer

Ask the San Antonio Spurs if Tony Allen isn't a top 40 SG.  Thabo Sefolosha he is not.

Corey Brewer was a SF in Dallas and obviously should be moved there due to the glut.

TOP 51-60
66 - Roger Mason
65 - Bill Walker
65 - Garrett Temple
65 - Rudy Fernandez
65 - Mike Miller
65 - Brandon Rush
65 - Gary Neal
64 - J.J. Redick
64 - Anthony Morrow
64 - Marco Belinelli

Roger Mason did nothing all year for the Knicks and is rated higher than Bill Walker, who he played behind, legit rotation players like Fernandez/Miller/Rush/Redick and players who started for their teams like Morrow/Belinelli.

Aside from the fact that Garrett Temple is a PG (where he rates lower) it's really a bit laughable that he is on par witth the aforementioned players as a SG.  Broken formula much?

TOP 61-70
64 - Manny Harris
64 - Xavier Henry
64 - Charlie Bell
64 - Jerry Stackhouse
63 - Antoine Wright
63 - Quinton Ross
63 - Dominique Jones
63 - Elliot Williams
63 - Terrico White
62 - Marquis Daniels

10 players who barely played in the NBA this season.  The only one who was a rotation player was Marquis Daniels (before injury), and he is the lowest rated of the bunch.  These ratings are especially poor when you consider....

TOP 71-85
62 - Jodie Meeks
62 - Kyle Korver
62 - Mike Dunleavy
61 - Daequan Cook
61 - Jermaine Taylor
60 - Wayne Ellington
59 - Trey Johnson
59 - Von Wafer
58 - Lance Stephenson
58 - Kyle Weaver
56 - Maurice Ager
56 - Andy Rautins
55 - Matt Carroll
55 - Robert Vaden
54 - Morris Peterson

Jodie Meeks is not even a top 70 SG in the league.  Meeks saved Philadelphia's season when he entered their starting lineup.  Yet he isn't even on Jerry "Radio Show" Stackhouse's level.  Kyle Korver and Mike Dunleavy are right behind him and there isn't a soul in the world who would take anyone in the likewise the #72 and in the league and there isn't a soul in the world who would take the 61-70 bracket over them.



Dwyane Wade
96 Overall (0)
96 Overall 2K11 (0)
96 Inside (+4)
79 Close (-1)
73 Mid (-5)
75 3pt (+5)
76 FT (+2)

Wade really didn't move much, and the important thing to note is his overall didn't either.

Kobe Bryant
94 Overall (-1)
95 Overall 2K11 (0)
88 Inside (0)
99 Close (+10)
78 Mid (-6)
78 3pt (+6)
83 FT (-1)

Kobe's mid-range rating has been discussed to death already but here's a recap.  He only hit 38% of his 16-23 ft shots.  Close rating is half of mid-range game (recall that this rating didn't even exist until a few years ago).  Kobe's heralded post game (those fadeaways, etc) occur in the Close range.  His 3pt% has declined 4% over the last 4 years. His range is declining as his health worsens.  That's life.  You will notice that Kobe EASILY has the best close rating among other SGs.   The next closest SG in the top ten is 15 points away.

Manu Ginobili
85 Overall (-3)
86 Overall 2K11 (-2)
86 Inside (-3)
79 Close (+1)
64 Mid (-16)
81 3pt (-3)
87 FT (0)

Another sticking point for fans has been the decrease of Ginobili's mid-range game.  Manu shot 36% in his limited attempts and only shot 31% in similarly limited attempts in 2010.  He is not a mid-range player and never has been.  Drives and threes have always been his game.  He is still the #3 SG in the league which is really all that matters.

Andre Iguodala
85 Overall (-2)
91 Inside (0)
73 Close (0)
72 Mid (-5)
79 3pt (+3)
69 FT (-2)
86 Overall 2K11 (-1)

As I mentioned prior, Iguodala should be a SF, but doesn't deserve such a high rating at either position.  This has little to do with his shot rating changes though, which were all deserved.  It is worth noting that Iguodala is one of the players that 100% doesn't have any ratings changed aside from his shot ratings.  His 2 point drop indicated formula change since he otherwise would have dropped only 1 point in 2K11.  This is most likely due to Iguodala's low "Close" rating, and probably not helped by his low FT rating (another rating I speculate is slightly more important).

Joe Johnson
84 Overall (-1)
85 Overall 2K11 (0)
90 Inside (+4)
81 Close (-8)
75 Mid (-6)
75 3pt (+6)
80 FT (-1)

Kobe fans, please take note that Joe Johnson has a lower Mid rating despite shooting 39%.

Stephen Jackson
83 Overall (-1)
84 Overall 2K11 (0)
80 Inside (-2)
73 Close (-1)
76 Mid (-4)
80 3pt (+4)
81 FT (-1)

Jackson shot 36% from mid-range and enjoys a 1 point edge over Joe Johnson.  Manu Ginobili also shot 36%, but Jackson also took twice as many shots as he did.  I'm not really following this whole Close/Inside rating either.  Inside is allegedly "At Rim" + "3-9 Feet" which leaves Close to "10-15 Feet".  However Jackson shot 48% from 10-15, a full 20% better than Iguodala (in a similar amount of attempts) yet both players have a 73 rating,  This leads me to think Close ALSO factors in the 3-9 foot shot, just as Inside does.  Of course, that still means Iguodala is way overrate since he likewise shot 28% from 3-9 feet (please note the similarities between Iggy's 3-9 and 10-15 and tell me 3-9 feet shouldn't count toward Close rating instead of Inside).

Monta Ellis
83 Overall (-4)
87 Overall 2K11 (0)
91 Inside (-3)
68 Close (-13)
82 Mid (0)
82 3pt (+4)
79 FT (+5)

Monta Ellis shot 38% from mid and has an 82 rating.  Rather than point to this as evidence that Kobe is underrated, it's more likely that Monta is overrated.  What you haven't noticed yet is that Kobe's 78 mid-range is actually the highest we've seen so far until Monta.  Monta's overall rating dropped the most which probably has a bit to do with the increased importance of Close rating.

Eric Gordon
82 Overall (-2)
83 Overall 2K11 (-1)
87 Inside (-2)
74 Close (+6)
68 Mid (-14)
83 3pt (+4)
83 FT (+2)

Gordon shot 38% from mid-range and is rated 10 points worse than Kobe.  Kobe fans need to stop crying effective immediately.  It is a bit ludicrous that these players are fluctuating all over the place despite 2K's alleged focus on stats.

Ray Allen
80 Overall (-1)
80 Overall 2K11 (-1)
85 Inside (-6)
83 Close (-5)
84 Mid (-4)
91 3pt (+4)
88 FT (-1)

Ray shot 46% from mid-range and I see no reason why Monta should be within 2 points of him.  Monta should certainly drop down to Kobe's level if we're going to be using Kobe's rating as a base (which I think 2K has done so far since he still maintains an edge from 16-23 feet on all the other SGs.

Tyreke Evans
80 Overall (-1)
81 Overall 2K11 (0)
83 Inside (-5)
72 Close (+7)
67 Mid (-5)
73 3pt (+6)
77 FT (+2)

Tyreke shot 33% from mid-range.  One can make an argument for Ginobili's 36% deserving a higher rating, but Tyreke also took twice as many attempts as Ginobili.  Also, Tyreke only shot 25% from 3-9 feet AND 10-15 feet (again, coincidence, i think not), which really doesn't do much to explain how he ended up with 72 close rating.

As with the point guards, changes were relatively incremental and had as much to do with formula changes as any.  2K's statistical implementation was spotty at best, however, and these players will need to be reviewed on a case by case basis to see how accurate they really are.  At the very least, we've seen that going by the stats, Kobe Bryant deserves no greater than 82 on his mid-range rating.