I completed my ratings, tendencies, and assigned plays for the Celtics, and instead of running a CPU match I decided to play against them with my also completed Knicks.
SETTINGS
All-Star difficulty
Simulation sliders
Rather than post the box score it might be best to look at each individual player's performance.
Carmelo Anthony
STATS: 44 Points, 6 Rebounds, 5 Assists, 1 Steal, 43 Minutes
SHOTS: 19-30 FG, 1-1 3PT, 5-5 FT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers, 4 Fouls
I had my offensive play calling set to Auto which naturally meant a bunch of Iso and Post plays for Melo. Naturally, I suck at the new Iso & Post controls. I still managed to find some separation here and there, and hit my share of contested shots too (which balanced out the ridiculous rate the CPU hit some of theirs). One thing I don't like about "Simulation" sliders is that the CPU will never swipe at the ball and thus I was kinda free to generate my own shot without losing the ball (PASSING is the absolute worst thing you can do in this game at times). Thus Melo only had 2 turnovers to his 30 FGA, 5 FTA, and 5 assists. The CPU also never goes for Charges which is a main source of Melo's real life turnovers, and unfortunately this is a feature that has been largely absent from the last 4-5 years of 2K.
Paul Pierce
STATS: 38 Points, 6 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 6 Steals, 2 Blocks, 37 Minutes
SHOTS: 15-20 FG, 4-6 3PT, 4-4 FT
NEGATIVE: 1 Turnover, 1 Foul
You can't get any more efficient than the game Pierce had. I played great defense for much of the game (at least as good as one can with Carmelo Anthony), but that is more than one can say about the dreaded CPU. Two straight possessions Pierce was able to hit threes because the CPU got totally lost on their rotations (chasing after a man that already had defensive coverage) while I was busy successfully defending a West/Garnett Pick & Roll.
Pierce also hit a go-ahead three with 1.8 seconds left in OT by literally jogging through a double screen play to hit an uncontested three. I didn't have much of a beef with his shot selection but the CPU defensive AI (who I honestly think intentionally function worse when rubberband AI is in effect) made his line a bit gaudier than it should have been (32 points on 13-18 FG and 2-4 3PT I can live with). Pierce also didn't take many FTs so maybe I could have been more physical with him on his drives... though the CPU managed to avoid contact from even the help defender on a few occasions.
Pierce also had 6 steals mainly from reaching on post entry passes to Melo. I wish my CPU would aggressively go after post entry passes.
Amare Stoudemire
STATS: 28 Points, 8 Rebounds, 2 Blocks, 44 Minutes
SHOTS: 12-24 FG, 4-5 FT
NEGATIVE: 3 Turnovers, 3 Fouls
After fixing the assigned plays, Amare ran more Pick and Rolls than he normally would, which was very pleasing. He should be utilizing his quickness against Garnett rather than playing with his back to the basket against one of the best post defenders in the league. I was also able to find him on a few basket cuts during one of Melo's isolation plays (this was not part of the play diagram, and I doubt the CPU would make this kind of recognition).
Amare also hit the game winning shot (unfortunately not a buzzer beater for the achievement, 0.3 seconds left) as I gave the CPU a taste of it's own medicine. For whatever reason my team wasn't running an inbounds play so I grabbed Amare (who was standing 30 feet from the basket with 1.8 seconds left looking for a pass like an idiot) and ran him towards the basket where he belongs. Garnett got caught behind Fields, Jermaine O'Neal (inbound defender), and Pierce (defending Fields) which gave Amare a clear path to the basket. Amare caught the ball 10 feet away and pulled up for a jumper. If I missed the shot I probably would have kicked myself for not going for the layup (though if time expired I would have kicked myself for not going for the shot). I think I pulled up simply because I was so shocked I was open. Either way, the shot went down, and Boston had no timeouts remaining (and w/ 0.3 ticks left, not enough time to get a shot anyway).
Kevin Garnett
STATS: 12 Points, 3 Rebounds, 2 Steals, 2 Blocks, 43 Minutes
SHOTS: 6-15 FG, 0-1 3PT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers, 3 Fouls
I took Garnett very seriously because I remember how unstoppable his fadeaway is in previous 2K games. Late in the game I started doubling off Rondo anytime KG got it in the post. He got a few good looks due to poor CPU rotation but at the end of the day he did not have a good offensive game (zero assists, no free throws, 9 missed shots).
One important feature to note is that Garnett played within himself and didn't dribble around the court. One of fan's biggest complaints is that bigs have Isolation tendencies that are much too high (Garnett's in particular was a team leading 91). Isolations only made up 5% of KG's offense IRL so this was appropriately dealt with.
Chauncey Billups
STATS: 11 Points, 4 Rebounds, 8 Assists, 1 Steal, 1 Block, 29 Minutes
SHOTS: 4-7 FG, 2-3 3PT, 1-1 FT
NEGATIVE: 1 Turnover, 6 Fouls
I was a bit reach happy with Billups on the defensive end, forgetting that it was Simulation setting where on-ball steal success is very low. Billups actually had some good fouls, preventing an alley oop (fouling the passer), and another that stopped a fastbreak so it wasn't all bad. I am not a fan of his man defense anyway as he isn't nearly quick enough to keep up with Rondo. I was flabbergasted when Avery Bradley checked into the game in the 4th quarter and then proceeded to blow by Billups for a dunk no more than 5 seconds later. Offensively, I didn't have a bad game with Billups as he ran the offense and I took smart shots, but his defensive struggles kept the Celtics in the game and I wasn't sad to see him foul out late in the 4th quarter.
Rajon Rondo
STATS: 24 Points, 2 Rebounds, 7 Assists,4 Steals
SHOTS: 9-22 FG, 6-8 FT
NEGATIVE: 1 Turnover, 6 Fouls
As mentioned before, Billups struggled to keep up with Rondo, and I also played off Rondo to double down on Garnett. The result is the CPU took more shots than Rondo normally would. He was only 1-6 between the 4th quarter and OT and fouled out via intentional foul on the 2nd to last possession of OT (I bricked one FT which set up Pierce's go-ahead three on the next possession). I definitely picked my poison properly by staying at home on the big three. I probably could have defended his penetrations better, but I was also using one of the league's worst defensive teams and I've spent the bulk of my time editing ratings. Cut me some slack.
Landry Fields
STATS: 11 Points, 5 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 39 Minutes
SHOTS: 3-4 FG, 3-3 3PT, 2-2 FT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers
Fields didn't get many plays run for him (a few Pick & Rolls w/ Amare) but was able to do most of his damage giving post-entry passes to Melo. Anytime Allen made any effort to double I was able to hit Fields for a three. Allen was late just enough that he wouldn't put his hands up and Fields was able to get B quallity shots on a Perfect Release that all went down. Defensively, he struggled to stay in front of Ray Allen at times, but was usually athletic enough to (eventually) recover. At one point Fields grabbed an offensive board, shot faked, and went to the line. All told, this was really how Fields plays in real life.
Ray Allen
STATS: 17 Points, 2 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal
SHOTS: 6-17 FG, 1-5 3PT, 4-5 FT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers, 1 Foul
If there was one player I was determined not to let beat me, it was Ray Allen. I made sure not to leave it to the CPU to chase Allen around on screens. I didn't overreact to Allen when he was on the 3pt line getting a pick from Garnett. He isn't going to take the shot in motion. Just get over and put your hands up. Only jump when the shot clock is down to one. The end result is I defended Allen much better than I'd thought. Most of his successful shots were fastbreak layups and dunks (or a layup he was able to get based on how tight I played him on the perimeter). I can live with 17 points on 17 shots from Ray Allen.
Ronny Turiaf
STATS: 4 Points, 6 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 1 Block, 35 Minutes
SHOTS: 1-1 FG, 2-2 FT
NEGATIVE: 2 Turnovers
Turiaf had the biggest shot of the night. Down 2 points with 5 seconds left, I inbounded the ball to Toney Douglas, 35 feet from the basket, momentarily forgetting it was the end of the game. Douglas drove in but was stopped by Rondo at the FT line. Turiaf showed up running over Douglas' left shoulder. Garnett was on my right side chasing Turiaf. With 1.6 seconds left I figure what the hell and give it to cutting Turiaf half-praying it was Amare (it wasn't... Amare was standing behind the 3pt line in the corner, home position for a PF/C in the 2Kverse). Turiaf catches the ball but has been re-picked up by Garnett on his right hand side. Turiaf swoops to the basket and lays it in over Garnett with no time remaining on the clock to send it into overtime.
Aside from that, no plays were ever called for Turiaf and he did his best to stay out of Amare & Melo's way. He played some solid team defense and helped limit KG but I'd have a bitter taste in my mouth if it weren't for him being in the right place at the right time.
Jermaine O'Neal
STATS: 4 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 3 Steals, 22 Minutes
SHOTS: 0-1 FG
NEGATIVE: 1 Foul
Like Turiaf, O'Neal got out of the way and focused on defense and rebounding. 3 steals in 22 minutes for O'Neal is a lot considering he only had 2 steals the entire season (458 minutes). Boston had 18 steals to my 6, which is ultimately what kept them in the game despite my 58% shooting to their 48%. I was pretty careful with my passing aside from one stint late in the 4th where I turned it over 3 straight times, so I don't know what one can really do to cut back on the CPU's success on this end. Obviously the Celtics are a good defensive team and get lots of steals, but not from Jermaine O'Neal (0.2 STL% last season).
Toney Douglas
STATS: 7 Points, 3 Rebounds, 10 Assists, 3 Blocks, 33 Minutes
SHOTS: 1-2 FG, 0-1 3PT, 5-6 FT
NEGATIVE: 9 Turnovers, 2 Fouls
Douglas with the epic 1.11 A/T ratio. His low pass rating probably had something to do with passes getting picked, as Billups had no problem making those same passes. Unlike Billups however, Douglas had no problem keeping Rondo in front as evidenced by his 3 blocks. Believe it or not, Douglas actually lead the team in Plus/Minus with +8 while Billups was -5. Now that I mention it, I did say Rondo was 1-6 in the 4th and OT (including 0-4 in OT which Douglas played all of) so really, we saw the best and worst of the Knick PGs. Both have to be used differently. 2K's playcalling system doesn't do a great job of recognizing this. One thing I definitely would have done if I were calling the shots would be to use Douglas in the Pick and Roll more with Amare rather than exclusively featuring Melo every time down, even if Melo was having his way offensively (when he actually got the ball - hence the reason why Douglas is best used in P/R situations).
Jeff Green
STATS: 5 Points, 4 Rebounds, 2 Steals, 26 Minutes
SHOTS: 1-3 FG, 3-4 FT
NEGATIVE: 1 Foul
Not much to say about Green's performance except that he stayed out of the way. He posted up a few times with Pierce out of the game but he's not a big time scorer. His lone basket came on a fastbreak.
Jared Jeffries
STATS: 4 Points, 5 Rebounds, 2 Steals
SHOTS: 1-1 FG, 2-4 FT
NEGATIVE: N/A
Jeffries is only 58 overall but still found a way to impact the game, be it coming up with a loose ball underneath or helping out on the defensive end. In typical Knick fan fashion, I found myself screaming at the TV anytime Jeffries came up with a ball and was timid about going up for a shot (resulting in a drawn foul). Part of that is my stick control, the other is just the shock from the CPU not coming up with the loose ball.
Glen Davis
STATS: 4 Points, 6 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 1 Block, 22 Minutes
SHOTS: 2-4 FG, 0-1 3PT
NEGATIVE: 2 Fouls
Like most opponents, I didn't really care when Davis had the ball on the perimeter, though he inexplicably was able to blow by Amare on the baseline (w/ Amare sagging off!) thanks to the game's unresponsive defensive controls.
THE REST
Bill Walker: 2 Points, 3 Rebounds, 1 Block, 13 Minutes (1-2 FG, 0-1 3PT)
Shawne Williams: 2 Rebounds, 1 Foul, 10 Minutes (0-2 FG, 0-1 3PT)
Iman Shumpert: 3 Points, 1 Turnover, 1 Foul, 6 Minutes (1-1 FG, 1-1 3PT)
Delonte West: 5 Points, 2 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 1 Foul, 16 Minutes (2-4 FG, 1-2 FT)
JaJuan Johnson: 4 Poinrs, 3 Rebounds, 11 Minutes (2-4 FG)
Avery Bradley: 4 Points, 2 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 5 Minutes (2-2 FG)
SUMMARY
This was a great gaming experience for me as it was a realistic and back and forth game with some huge highlights for both teams. I can live with some of the CPU's steals since I was playing the Celtics and most came against a guy who really can't run the point, and even the Knicks' defensive mistakes by the CPU (it IS the Knicks we're talking about). One major concern however is how many steals the CPU had when they weren't even reaching for the ball. Turning up that slider would probably make me want to rip my hair out (though it would also lead to more steals on my end). I also would have liked to see more P/R play from the Celtics which can be attributed to the "Look for Post Players" slider being increased on the Simulation slider set (that certainly isn't a player tendency issue however).
I was basically able to shut down Boston's halfcourt offense (aside from Pierce) but those fastbreaks simply killed me. Celtics had 64 Points in the Paint, 22 Fastbreak Points, and 28 Points off Turnovers. They shot 48% from the field, but when you factor in how many of those baskets came on the break, I did a much better defensive job than the numbers showed. When the CPU wasn't forcing turnovers, I more or less took them to town with my superior shot selection (58% from the field and 7-11 on threes). The game was ONLY close because I had 15 more turnovers than they did.
All told however, this was one of the most realistic NBA experiences I have ever played, and a big improvement over what we were seeing with the default rosters. I'm looking forward to working on the other 28 teams. I will also upload the roster right now so you guys can download and try it out for yourselves (remember: only the Knicks and Celtics are completed so far). I would love to hear your results.
Wednesday, October 19, 2011
Monday, October 17, 2011
Real 2K Insider fixed the NBA 2K12 gameplay
I completed my tendencies last night for the New York Knicks and tested them in a CPU match. I was pleasantly surprised with the results.
In previous Knicks simulations Carmelo Anthony would take 30+ shots while Amare Stoudemire took about 10, and the rest of the team even less than that. Frustrating, because Melo and Amare had identical Shot & Touch tendencies (93 & 99 respectively). Melo would post up on nearly every possession. The reality is he isolates on 37% of his possessions (most in the league!) and posts up on only 13% of the time (a high mark for a SF, but certainly not every trip down the floor. Amare/Melo both prefer to face the basket and attack! The post ups (which is a league-wide problem) also drive down assist totals. This is a Mike D'Antoni team and passing for 3pt shots and pick & rolls are the name of the game!
Gameplay was set to Simulation setting. All-Star difficulty on 12 minute quarters.
PTS-REB-AST-STL-BLK-TO-MINS
Ronny Turiaf: 6-4-1-0-3-1-24 (3-4 FG)
Amare Stoudemire: 12-7-4-0-0-0-35 (4-11 FG, 4-6 FT)
Carmelo Anthony: 22-6-3-1-1-0-36 (7-15 FG, 3-5 3PT, 5-6 FT)
Landry Fields: 14-9-4-0-1-0-35 (5-11 FG, 2-6 3PT, 2-2 FT)
Chauncey Billups: 18-4-7-0-1-1-32 (7-12 FG, 3-7 3PT, 1-1 FT)
Toney Douglas: 10-3-0-1-2-2-21 (3-6 FG, 2-4 3PT, 2-2 FT)
Jared Jeffries: 8-1-0-0-0-0-16 (4-4 FG, 0-1 FT)
Iman Shumpert: 6-0-1-0-0-0-8 (2-4 FG, 1-1 3PT, 1-2 FT)
Shawne Williams: 3-3-0-0-0-1-20 (1-3 FG, 1-2 3PT)
Bill Walker: 0-2-0-0-0-0-13 (0-1 FG, 0-1 3PT)
Josh Harrellson: 0-2-0-0-0-0-5 (0-1 FG, 0-2 FT)
Derrick Brown: DNP
TEAM: 99-41-20-2-8-48 (36-72 FG, 12-26 3PT, 15-22 FT)
Fields lead the team in scoring in the first half with 12 which was certainly a bright spot. He didn't hesitate to take a three when left open. Melo took over scoring in the second half to lead the team but on far fewer shots than previous simulations. The scoring and shot distribution was much more balanced this time around.
The team was pitted against the Boston Celtics who will be the next team I complete all ratings and tendencies for. They certainly need it as Paul Pierce scored 25 points on 27 shots. Ray Allen was next with 23 points and only 13 shots, while Kevin Garnett took only 7 shots in 34 minutes (5-7 against Pierce's 8-27). Jeff Green finished with 12 points on a perfect 5-5 shooting.
My tendencies & ratings lead to a more balanced attack for the Knicks and the featured player was whoever had the hot hand at the time. Fields had 12 of his 14 in the first half while Melo had 10 of his 22 in the 4th quarter. 2K's tendencies & ratings on the other hand lead to a more scripted game as Paul Pierce was going to take a shot whether it was a good one or not.
The best part is these results can only improve. I meant to edit each player's assigned plays but completely forgot as I wanted to test the tendencies out ASAP. I will run another simulation with those tweaks (if there are any). Completing the opposing team's ratings/tendencies/plays should also help.
Another thing I should also try is the gameplay on Default setting rather than Simulation. Shot sliders are down on the sim setting but the CPU will also not attempt on ball steals which lead to a very low amount of steals and turnovers. The Celtics are a superb defensive team with one of the league's best ball hawks at PG yet didn't disrupt much of the Knicks' offensive flow. A combination of both slider settings will probably generate more realistic gameplay. Finally, I will also test out a Human vs CPU game to see if the CPU reacts any differently towards a user than it's fellow CPU.
I will upload another roster later tonight so you guys can run your own tests. Only one team has completed rating/tendencies so far but that will change over the coming weeks.
I will upload another roster later tonight so you guys can run your own tests. Only one team has completed rating/tendencies so far but that will change over the coming weeks.
Sunday, October 16, 2011
NBA 2K12 Post Up Tendencies & Synergy Data
I've started the ground work on my player tendencies and have come across some disturbing trends among NBA 2K12's defaults. One thing I've noticed from watching and playing against the CPU in NBA 2K12 is that players post up much more than they do in real life. I've seen CPU Derrick Rose score twice in the post during a game, which is something he did twice ALL SEASON. Naturally the Post Up tendency was one of the first I wanted to check out.
Post Up data compiled from the highly recommended Synergy Sports.
Minutes = Regular Season + Playoffs
Dwight Howard
99 Tendency
1113 Post Ups (59.0% of Offense)
16.73 PU Per 48 Minutes (3193 Minutes)
Zach Randolph
98 Tendency
714 Post Ups (39.9% of Offense)
10.58 PU Per 48 Minutes (3239 Minutes)
These two players post up more than anyone else in the league. They are the bar for what a max rating should look like.
Amare Stoudemire
99 Tendency
246 Post Ups (12.0% of Offense)
3.93 PU Per 48 Minutes (3004 Minutes)
Amare Stoudemire posts up nowhere near as frequently yet he boasts an extremely high tendency (even higher than Randolph!)
Kwame Brown
94 Tendency
149 Post Ups (27.4% of Offense)
4.17 PU Per 48 Minutes (1714 Minutes)
I can understand a high tendency for Kwame since a great deal of his offense comes from the post. However since he is a low volume scorer one can also make a case for him to have a low tendency since the frequency of his offense being used is not so great (though still more frequent than Amare Stoudemire).
Jason Collins
6 Tendency
7 Post Ups (5.2% of Offense)
0.44 PU Per 48 Minutes (751 Minutes)
It would appear going with the per minute # might be more prudent because percentage-wise Collins is posting up half as much as Amare. Ultimately it depends on how other tendencies (specifically Shot and Touch) affect the Post tendency.
It also appears that 6 is the minimum post tendency 2K gave out, which doesn't quite make sense to me since 1 or 0 is used for most other attributes. Collins certainly posts up more than say...
Derrick Rose
7 Tendency
9 Post Ups (0.3% of Offense)
0.11 PU Per 48 Minutes (3675 Minutes)
Rose has reportedly been working on his post game (although considering 2K rates all his post moves as "Good" why would he need to?) but until he starts showing it, even guys like Jason Collins should have higher tendencies.
D.J. Augustin
11 Tendency
0 Post Ups (0.0% of Offense)
0.00 PU Per 48 Minutes (2757 Minutes)
The diminutive Augustin never even posts up, yet boasts a higher tendency than the guy who inspired this post.
Kobe Bryant
98 Tendency
337 Post Ups (14.4% of Offense)
5.16 PU Per 48 Minutes (3133 Minutes)
Moving to the other side of the spectrum, Kobe posts up more than any other guard in the league. While he doesn't post up nearly as much as Zach Randolph, he does so much more than Amare Stoudemire.
LeBron James
97 Tendency
205 Post Ups (8.1% of Offense)
2.46 PU Per 48 Minutes (3985 Minutes)
LeBron posts up far more than he is given credit for (and is actually successful when he does so), but there is obviously no way he can justifiably have a similar tendency to Kobe.
Dwyane Wade
73 Tendency
145 Post Ups (6.0% of Offense)
1.90 PU Per 48 Minutes (3652 Minutes)
Wade's tendency might be a bit more realistic for LeBron. Until you consider that only 25 points separate Wade and Zach Randolph. Both Heat players need to be considerably lower. They are isolation players, not constant post threats!
Tyrus Thomas
15 Tendency
70 Post Ups (15.5% of Offense)
3.90 PU Per 48 Minutes (861 Minutes)
Tyrus posts up more than LeBron or Wade yet his Post tendency is only 4 points greater than Augustin. He posts up as frequently as Amare Stoudemire yet 84 points separate them.
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There is no rhyme or reason to this. These are so poorly done it's an open question as to whether 2K even used Synergy to determine their tendencies or if they simply went with "feel" and the "honest" eyeball. A Synergy subscription costs $30, which is half the price of one sold copy of NBA 2K. I shouldn't have to write this.
I am no statistician. This is a basic application of elementary math that even SAT cheaters like Derrick Rose and Lamar Odom could do. 2K Sports for whatever reason has chosen to ignore mathematics whilst touting itself as an NBA simulation. This is MIND BOGGLING.
Nitpicking these numbers does not make for a compelling read, nor is it very important to the average NBA 2K fan. However what IS important to the average NBA 2K fan is the gameplay and for the past few years 2K's abominable tendencies have greatly hindered that end. Rather than make improvements in these fields it seems like 2K is content with the status quo and then wondering why users complain once they get past the paid-off exclusive reviews (IGN) and find a buggy game that they paid 65 dollars to beta test.
(What other game in the world asks this of their fanbase year after year?)
Post Up data compiled from the highly recommended Synergy Sports.
Minutes = Regular Season + Playoffs
Dwight Howard
99 Tendency
1113 Post Ups (59.0% of Offense)
16.73 PU Per 48 Minutes (3193 Minutes)
Zach Randolph
98 Tendency
714 Post Ups (39.9% of Offense)
10.58 PU Per 48 Minutes (3239 Minutes)
These two players post up more than anyone else in the league. They are the bar for what a max rating should look like.
Amare Stoudemire
99 Tendency
246 Post Ups (12.0% of Offense)
3.93 PU Per 48 Minutes (3004 Minutes)
Amare Stoudemire posts up nowhere near as frequently yet he boasts an extremely high tendency (even higher than Randolph!)
Kwame Brown
94 Tendency
149 Post Ups (27.4% of Offense)
4.17 PU Per 48 Minutes (1714 Minutes)
I can understand a high tendency for Kwame since a great deal of his offense comes from the post. However since he is a low volume scorer one can also make a case for him to have a low tendency since the frequency of his offense being used is not so great (though still more frequent than Amare Stoudemire).
Jason Collins
6 Tendency
7 Post Ups (5.2% of Offense)
0.44 PU Per 48 Minutes (751 Minutes)
It would appear going with the per minute # might be more prudent because percentage-wise Collins is posting up half as much as Amare. Ultimately it depends on how other tendencies (specifically Shot and Touch) affect the Post tendency.
It also appears that 6 is the minimum post tendency 2K gave out, which doesn't quite make sense to me since 1 or 0 is used for most other attributes. Collins certainly posts up more than say...
Derrick Rose
7 Tendency
9 Post Ups (0.3% of Offense)
0.11 PU Per 48 Minutes (3675 Minutes)
Rose has reportedly been working on his post game (although considering 2K rates all his post moves as "Good" why would he need to?) but until he starts showing it, even guys like Jason Collins should have higher tendencies.
D.J. Augustin
11 Tendency
0 Post Ups (0.0% of Offense)
0.00 PU Per 48 Minutes (2757 Minutes)
The diminutive Augustin never even posts up, yet boasts a higher tendency than the guy who inspired this post.
Kobe Bryant
98 Tendency
337 Post Ups (14.4% of Offense)
5.16 PU Per 48 Minutes (3133 Minutes)
Moving to the other side of the spectrum, Kobe posts up more than any other guard in the league. While he doesn't post up nearly as much as Zach Randolph, he does so much more than Amare Stoudemire.
LeBron James
97 Tendency
205 Post Ups (8.1% of Offense)
2.46 PU Per 48 Minutes (3985 Minutes)
LeBron posts up far more than he is given credit for (and is actually successful when he does so), but there is obviously no way he can justifiably have a similar tendency to Kobe.
Dwyane Wade
73 Tendency
145 Post Ups (6.0% of Offense)
1.90 PU Per 48 Minutes (3652 Minutes)
Wade's tendency might be a bit more realistic for LeBron. Until you consider that only 25 points separate Wade and Zach Randolph. Both Heat players need to be considerably lower. They are isolation players, not constant post threats!
Tyrus Thomas
15 Tendency
70 Post Ups (15.5% of Offense)
3.90 PU Per 48 Minutes (861 Minutes)
Tyrus posts up more than LeBron or Wade yet his Post tendency is only 4 points greater than Augustin. He posts up as frequently as Amare Stoudemire yet 84 points separate them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no rhyme or reason to this. These are so poorly done it's an open question as to whether 2K even used Synergy to determine their tendencies or if they simply went with "feel" and the "honest" eyeball. A Synergy subscription costs $30, which is half the price of one sold copy of NBA 2K. I shouldn't have to write this.
I am no statistician. This is a basic application of elementary math that even SAT cheaters like Derrick Rose and Lamar Odom could do. 2K Sports for whatever reason has chosen to ignore mathematics whilst touting itself as an NBA simulation. This is MIND BOGGLING.
Nitpicking these numbers does not make for a compelling read, nor is it very important to the average NBA 2K fan. However what IS important to the average NBA 2K fan is the gameplay and for the past few years 2K's abominable tendencies have greatly hindered that end. Rather than make improvements in these fields it seems like 2K is content with the status quo and then wondering why users complain once they get past the paid-off exclusive reviews (IGN) and find a buggy game that they paid 65 dollars to beta test.
(What other game in the world asks this of their fanbase year after year?)
Thursday, October 6, 2011
List of NBA 2K12 Team & NBA's Greatest Ratings
What do you think of the "NBA's Greatest" teams? Which teams would you like to have seen?
Here's a list of the numerical team ratings (the actual number, not the team ranks) for the teams in NBA2K12. Rather than use 2K's broken Overall rating (for teams), I've found that averaging the Offense and Defense ratings provides far greater accuracy.
NBA EASTERN CONFERENCE
94.5 Heat (99 Def, 90 Off, 89 Ovr)
83.5 Bulls (99 Def, 68 Off, 85 Ovr)
82.5 Celtics (85 Def, 80 Off, 86 Ovr)
81.0 Magic (87 Def, 75 Off, 81 Ovr)
80.0 Hawks (76 Def, 84 Off, 78 Ovr)
74.0 Knicks (61 Def, 87 Off, 74 Ovr)
74.0 76ers (79 Def, 69 Off, 75 Ovr)
71.5 Pacers (78 Def, 65 Off, 73 Ovr)
70.0 Bucks (80 Def, 60 Off, 73 Ovr)
66.5 Pistons (60 Def, 73 Off, 69 Ovr)
63.0 Cavaliers (66 Def, 60 Off, 66 Ovr)
63.0 Raptors (66 Def, 60 Off, 64 Ovr)
62.0 Wizards (64 Def, 60 Off, 68 Ovr)
62.0 Nets (64 Def, 60 Off, 67 Ovr)
62.0 Bobcats (64 Def, 60 Off, 64 Ovr)
The East's Top 9 is down to a T when you look beyond the overall rating. It's clear that Miami is extremely overrated. In my most recent sim they went 73-9. They're good, but they're not that good. Cavaliers on the surface might seem overrated but it's often forgotten they were a decent team for a month and a half until Anderson Varejao got hurt. Bobcats also come out low, but they also traded Stephen Jackson (83) for Corey Maggette (74).
NBA WESTERN CONFERENCE
89.0 Mavericks (79 Def, 99 Off, 84 Ovr)
85.5 Spurs (87 Def, 84 Off, 81 Ovr)
83.5 Nuggets (70 Def, 97 Off, 80 Ovr)
83.0 Grizzlies (77 Def, 89 Off, 84 Ovr)
82.0 Lakers (89 Def, 75 Off, 86 Ovr)
80.0 Thunder (77 Def, 83 Off, 83 Ovr)
79.0 Suns (74 Def, 86 Off, 78 Ovr)
75.0 Hornets (80 Def, 70 Off, 77 Ovr)
73.0 Jazz (73 Def, 73 Off, 78 Ovr)
73.0 Warriors (65 Def, 81 Off, 74 Ovr)
71.5 Trailblazers (77 Def, 66 Off, 80 Ovr)
70.0 Clippers (71 Def, 69 Off, 76 Ovr)
69.0 Rockets (74 Def, 64 Off, 75 Ovr)
62.5 Kings (65 Def, 60 Off, 69 Ovr)
60.0 Timberwolves (60 Def, 60 Off, 63 Ovr)
The West is more of a mixed bag. Nuggets and Grizzlies better than Lakers and Thunder? During a 3 year association simulation, Nuggets went to the NBA Finals once and the Conference Finals twice. Hornets with healthy David West worse than the Suns? Warriors better than the Blazers with healthy Greg Oden and Raymond Felton replacing Andre Miller?
SPECIAL TEAMS
99.0 East All-Stars (99 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
96.5 West All-Stars (94 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
70.0 Rookies (60 Def, 80 Off, 71 Ovr)
74.5 Sophomores (84 Def, 65 Off, 76 Ovr)
99.0 NBA 2K (99 Def, 99 Off, 95 Ovr)
99.0 2K Sports (99 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
98.0 VC (97 Def, 99 Off, 92 Ovr)
97.0 2K China (95 Def, 99 Off, 97 Ovr)
Rookies and Sophs are last year's R/S (meaning the Rookie team will be the Sophs when the real rookies sign contracts). The last 4 teams are unlockable w/ the following codes.
2ksports
2kchina
nba2k
vcteam
payrespect - Unlocks ABA ball
I'm not sure who actually uses those teams (aside from the 2K devs themselves) and I would hate to think a substantial amount of time goes into a feature that the fans hardly use.
NBA's GREATEST TEAMS
99.0 [64-65 Celtics] (99 Def, 99 Off, 98 Ovr)
95.0 [64-65 Lakers] (94 Def, 96 Off, 95 Ovr)
97.5 [70-71 Bucks] (96 Def, 99 Off, 97 Ovr)
95.0 [70-71 Lakers] (91 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
92.0 [70-71 Hawks] (85 Def, 99 Off, 92 Ovr)
96.0 [71-72 Lakers] (93 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
96.5 [71-72 Knicks] (95 Def, 98 Off, 95 Ovr)
96.5 [76-77 76ers] (94 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
94.5 [84-85 76ers] (94 Def, 95 Off, 93 Ovr)
91.5 [84-85 Bucks] (91 Def, 92 Off, 92 Ovr)
83.5 [85-86 Bulls] (81 Def, 88 Off, 85 Ovr)
99.0 [85-86 Celtics] (99 Def, 99 Off, 98 Ovr)
79.5 [85-86 Hawks] (80 Def, 79 Off, 81 Ovr)
98.5 [86-87 Lakers] (98 Def, 99 Off, 98 Ovr)
97.0 [88-89 Pistons] (95 Def, 99 Off, 95 Ovr)
93.5 [88-89 Bulls] (85 Def, 98 Off, 91 Ovr)
90.0 [89-90 Cavaliers] (84 Def, 96 Off, 89 Ovr)
95.0 [90-91 Bulls] (92 Def, 98 Off, 94 Ovr)
97.0 [90-91 Lakers] (95 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
92.0 [90-91 Trailblazers] (89 Def, 95 Off, 92 Ovr)
91.0 [90-91 Warriors] (85 Def, 97 Off, 90 Ovr)
95.0 [92-93 Bulls] (94 Def, 96 Off, 95 Ovr)
91.5 [92-93 Hornets] (85 Def, 98 Off, 90 Ovr)
94.5 [93-94 Rockets] (90 Def, 99 Off, 93 Ovr)
88.0 [93-94 Nuggets] (86 Def, 90 Off, 88 Ovr)
92.0 [94-95 Knicks] (92 Def, 92 Off, 92 Ovr)
96.0 [94-95 Magic] (93 Def, 99 Off, 95 Ovr)
97.0 [95-96 Bulls] (95 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
95.0 [95-96 Supersonics] (97 Def, 93 Off, 94 Ovr)
97.5 [97-98 Bulls] (96 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
92.0 [97-98 Jazz] (91 Def, 93 Off, 91 Ovr)
93.5 [97-98 Lakers] (92 Def, 95 Off, 93 Ovr)
94.0 [97-98 Spurs] (95 Def, 93 Off, 93 Ovr)
93.5 [01-02 Kings] (88 Def, 99 Off, 93 Ovr)
You know offensive ratings are out of wack when the 94 Rockets and 95 Knicks are better offensive teams than they are defensive teams. All of these teams with the exception of the 86 Hawks (79) and 86 Bulls (88) are 90+ offensively. Some of these teams were stacked offensively (1991 & 1996 Bulls, 1998 Jazz) but that certainly wasn't the case with the 95 Knicks (#1 Defense, #16 Defense), or 94 Rockets (#1 Defense, #15 Offense) They were one star teams that played some of the toughest defense ever played. The 93 Hornets, while a popular team, were not a great team, only winning 44 games (5th in the east), with the #9 Offense (rated 98?) and #19 Defense (rated 85?).
Obviously it's very cool that these teams were added and they were meant to add some fun to the game, but the one thing I've noticed is that defense is impossible in these games as players simply don't miss shots even when you do defend them well. Offensive ratings are much too high, and in many cases, various liberties were taken to "enhance" the user experience. As with every other 2K game, it will be up to roster editors to fix the mess 2K has created to make the game as enjoyable as it was meant to be (for most players).
Rather than nitpick here I think it would be great to make featured posts highlighting various teams.
Here's a list of the numerical team ratings (the actual number, not the team ranks) for the teams in NBA2K12. Rather than use 2K's broken Overall rating (for teams), I've found that averaging the Offense and Defense ratings provides far greater accuracy.
NBA EASTERN CONFERENCE
94.5 Heat (99 Def, 90 Off, 89 Ovr)
83.5 Bulls (99 Def, 68 Off, 85 Ovr)
82.5 Celtics (85 Def, 80 Off, 86 Ovr)
81.0 Magic (87 Def, 75 Off, 81 Ovr)
80.0 Hawks (76 Def, 84 Off, 78 Ovr)
74.0 Knicks (61 Def, 87 Off, 74 Ovr)
74.0 76ers (79 Def, 69 Off, 75 Ovr)
71.5 Pacers (78 Def, 65 Off, 73 Ovr)
70.0 Bucks (80 Def, 60 Off, 73 Ovr)
66.5 Pistons (60 Def, 73 Off, 69 Ovr)
63.0 Cavaliers (66 Def, 60 Off, 66 Ovr)
63.0 Raptors (66 Def, 60 Off, 64 Ovr)
62.0 Wizards (64 Def, 60 Off, 68 Ovr)
62.0 Nets (64 Def, 60 Off, 67 Ovr)
62.0 Bobcats (64 Def, 60 Off, 64 Ovr)
The East's Top 9 is down to a T when you look beyond the overall rating. It's clear that Miami is extremely overrated. In my most recent sim they went 73-9. They're good, but they're not that good. Cavaliers on the surface might seem overrated but it's often forgotten they were a decent team for a month and a half until Anderson Varejao got hurt. Bobcats also come out low, but they also traded Stephen Jackson (83) for Corey Maggette (74).
NBA WESTERN CONFERENCE
89.0 Mavericks (79 Def, 99 Off, 84 Ovr)
85.5 Spurs (87 Def, 84 Off, 81 Ovr)
83.5 Nuggets (70 Def, 97 Off, 80 Ovr)
83.0 Grizzlies (77 Def, 89 Off, 84 Ovr)
82.0 Lakers (89 Def, 75 Off, 86 Ovr)
80.0 Thunder (77 Def, 83 Off, 83 Ovr)
79.0 Suns (74 Def, 86 Off, 78 Ovr)
75.0 Hornets (80 Def, 70 Off, 77 Ovr)
73.0 Jazz (73 Def, 73 Off, 78 Ovr)
73.0 Warriors (65 Def, 81 Off, 74 Ovr)
71.5 Trailblazers (77 Def, 66 Off, 80 Ovr)
70.0 Clippers (71 Def, 69 Off, 76 Ovr)
69.0 Rockets (74 Def, 64 Off, 75 Ovr)
62.5 Kings (65 Def, 60 Off, 69 Ovr)
60.0 Timberwolves (60 Def, 60 Off, 63 Ovr)
The West is more of a mixed bag. Nuggets and Grizzlies better than Lakers and Thunder? During a 3 year association simulation, Nuggets went to the NBA Finals once and the Conference Finals twice. Hornets with healthy David West worse than the Suns? Warriors better than the Blazers with healthy Greg Oden and Raymond Felton replacing Andre Miller?
SPECIAL TEAMS
99.0 East All-Stars (99 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
96.5 West All-Stars (94 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
70.0 Rookies (60 Def, 80 Off, 71 Ovr)
74.5 Sophomores (84 Def, 65 Off, 76 Ovr)
99.0 NBA 2K (99 Def, 99 Off, 95 Ovr)
99.0 2K Sports (99 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
98.0 VC (97 Def, 99 Off, 92 Ovr)
97.0 2K China (95 Def, 99 Off, 97 Ovr)
Rookies and Sophs are last year's R/S (meaning the Rookie team will be the Sophs when the real rookies sign contracts). The last 4 teams are unlockable w/ the following codes.
2ksports
2kchina
nba2k
vcteam
payrespect - Unlocks ABA ball
I'm not sure who actually uses those teams (aside from the 2K devs themselves) and I would hate to think a substantial amount of time goes into a feature that the fans hardly use.
NBA's GREATEST TEAMS
99.0 [64-65 Celtics] (99 Def, 99 Off, 98 Ovr)
95.0 [64-65 Lakers] (94 Def, 96 Off, 95 Ovr)
97.5 [70-71 Bucks] (96 Def, 99 Off, 97 Ovr)
95.0 [70-71 Lakers] (91 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
92.0 [70-71 Hawks] (85 Def, 99 Off, 92 Ovr)
96.0 [71-72 Lakers] (93 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
96.5 [71-72 Knicks] (95 Def, 98 Off, 95 Ovr)
96.5 [76-77 76ers] (94 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
94.5 [84-85 76ers] (94 Def, 95 Off, 93 Ovr)
91.5 [84-85 Bucks] (91 Def, 92 Off, 92 Ovr)
83.5 [85-86 Bulls] (81 Def, 88 Off, 85 Ovr)
99.0 [85-86 Celtics] (99 Def, 99 Off, 98 Ovr)
79.5 [85-86 Hawks] (80 Def, 79 Off, 81 Ovr)
98.5 [86-87 Lakers] (98 Def, 99 Off, 98 Ovr)
97.0 [88-89 Pistons] (95 Def, 99 Off, 95 Ovr)
93.5 [88-89 Bulls] (85 Def, 98 Off, 91 Ovr)
90.0 [89-90 Cavaliers] (84 Def, 96 Off, 89 Ovr)
95.0 [90-91 Bulls] (92 Def, 98 Off, 94 Ovr)
97.0 [90-91 Lakers] (95 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
92.0 [90-91 Trailblazers] (89 Def, 95 Off, 92 Ovr)
91.0 [90-91 Warriors] (85 Def, 97 Off, 90 Ovr)
95.0 [92-93 Bulls] (94 Def, 96 Off, 95 Ovr)
91.5 [92-93 Hornets] (85 Def, 98 Off, 90 Ovr)
94.5 [93-94 Rockets] (90 Def, 99 Off, 93 Ovr)
88.0 [93-94 Nuggets] (86 Def, 90 Off, 88 Ovr)
92.0 [94-95 Knicks] (92 Def, 92 Off, 92 Ovr)
96.0 [94-95 Magic] (93 Def, 99 Off, 95 Ovr)
97.0 [95-96 Bulls] (95 Def, 99 Off, 96 Ovr)
95.0 [95-96 Supersonics] (97 Def, 93 Off, 94 Ovr)
97.5 [97-98 Bulls] (96 Def, 99 Off, 94 Ovr)
92.0 [97-98 Jazz] (91 Def, 93 Off, 91 Ovr)
93.5 [97-98 Lakers] (92 Def, 95 Off, 93 Ovr)
94.0 [97-98 Spurs] (95 Def, 93 Off, 93 Ovr)
93.5 [01-02 Kings] (88 Def, 99 Off, 93 Ovr)
You know offensive ratings are out of wack when the 94 Rockets and 95 Knicks are better offensive teams than they are defensive teams. All of these teams with the exception of the 86 Hawks (79) and 86 Bulls (88) are 90+ offensively. Some of these teams were stacked offensively (1991 & 1996 Bulls, 1998 Jazz) but that certainly wasn't the case with the 95 Knicks (#1 Defense, #16 Defense), or 94 Rockets (#1 Defense, #15 Offense) They were one star teams that played some of the toughest defense ever played. The 93 Hornets, while a popular team, were not a great team, only winning 44 games (5th in the east), with the #9 Offense (rated 98?) and #19 Defense (rated 85?).
Obviously it's very cool that these teams were added and they were meant to add some fun to the game, but the one thing I've noticed is that defense is impossible in these games as players simply don't miss shots even when you do defend them well. Offensive ratings are much too high, and in many cases, various liberties were taken to "enhance" the user experience. As with every other 2K game, it will be up to roster editors to fix the mess 2K has created to make the game as enjoyable as it was meant to be (for most players).
Rather than nitpick here I think it would be great to make featured posts highlighting various teams.
NBA 2K12 List of NBA's Greatest Player Ratings
There are 34 Retro teams in NBA 2K12, unlocked by completing the "NBA's Greatest" challenges.
What teams would you have liked to see, and why?
NOTE: Some teams are missing a key player here or there (most notably the 85 Sixers who are missing Charles Barkley). If a team does not have 12 players on the roster a generic player will take the spot: Michael Davis, David Miller, John Brown, William Jones, Robert Williams, James Smith, or Richard Johnson.
64-65 Boston Celtics
97 - Bill Russell (C)
89 - Sam Jones (SG)
87 - John Havlicek (SF)
84 - Tom Sanders (PF)
81 - Tom Heinsohn (PF)
81 - K.C. Jones (PG)
70 - Larry Siegfried (PG)
60 - Mel Counts (C)
52 - John Thompson (C)
64-65 Los Angeles Lakers
94 - Elgin Baylor (SF)
91 - Jerry West (PG)
83 - Rudy LaRusso (PF)
80 - Dick Barnett (SG)
66 - LeRoy Ellis (C)
65 - Don Nelson (SF)
64 - Walt Hazzard (PG)
63 - Darrall Imhoff (C)
62 - Jim King (SG)
70-71 Milwaukee Bucks
97 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (C)
94 - Oscar Robertson (PG)
88 - Bob Dandridge (SF)
73 - Greg Smith (PF)
72 - Bob Boozer (PF)
72 - Jon McGlocklin (SG)
70 - Lucius Allen (PG)
60 - Dick Cunningham (C)
70-71 Los Angeles Lakers
94 - Wilt Chamberlain (C)
92 - Jerry West (PG)
85 - Gail Goodrich (SG)
76 - Elgin Baylor (SF)
74 - Keith Erickson (SF)
72 - Jim McMillian (SF)
61 - Rick Roberson (C)
61 - Willie McCarter
70-71 Atlanta Hawks
86 - Lou Hudson (SF)
85 - Pete Maravich (SG)
80 - Walt Bellamy (C)
80 - Bill Bridges (PF)
77 - Walt Hazzard (PG)
67 - Jerry Chambers (SF)
61 - Len Chappell (PF)
61 - Jim Davis (C)
71-72 Los Angeles Lakers
93 - Wilt Chamberlain (C)
90 - Jerry West (PG)
87 - Gail Goodrich (SG)
77 - Jim McMillian (SF)
76 - Elgin Baylor (SF)
73 - Keith Erickson (SF)
70 - Flynn Robinson (PG)
62 - LeRoy Ellis (C)
71-72 New York Knicks
89 - Walt Frazier (PG)
87 - Jerry Lucas (PF)
85 - Dave DeBusschere (PF)
83 - Willis Reed (C)
78 - Earl Monroe (PG)
77 - Bill Bradley (SF)
74 - Dick Barnett (SG)
70 - Phil Jackson (PF)
51 - Luther Rackley (C)
76-77 Philadelphia 76ers
96 - Julius Erving (SF)
93 - George McGinnis (PF)
81 - Doug Collins (SG)
80 - World B. Free (PG)
80 - Henry Bibby (PG)
73 - Steve Mix (PF)
73 - Darryl Dawkins (C)
72 - Joe Bryant (SF)
67 - Harvey Catchings (C)
63 - Mike Dunleavy (PG)
84-85 Philadelphia 76ers
94 - Moses Malone (C)
93 - Julius Erving (SF)
83 - Maurice Cheeks (PG)
74 - Bobby Jones (SF)
71 - Clint Richardson (SG)
67 - George Johnson (PF)
66 - Clemon Johnson (C)
84-85 Milwaukee Bucks
91 - Sidney Moncrief (SG)
89 - Terry Cummings (PF)
86 - Paul Pressey (SG)
76 - Ricky Pierce (SF)
72 - Mike Dunleavy (PG)
68 - Alton Lister (C)
66 - Craig Hodges (PG)
63 - Charles Davis (SF)
60 - Randy Breuer (C)
57 - Paul Mokeski (C)
85-86 Chicago Bulls
92 - Michael Jordan (SG)
81 - George Gervin (SF)
81 - Orlando Woolridge (SF)
73 - Charles Oakley (PF)
68 - John Paxson (PG)
66 - Rod Higgins (SF)
66 - Sidney Green (PF)
66 - Kyle Macy (PG)
62 - Dave Corzine (C)
85-86 Boston Celtics
97 - Larry Bird (SF)
88 - Kevin McHale (PF)
86 - Robert Parish (C)
80 - Dennis Johnson (PG)
77 - Bill Walton (C)
74 - Danny Ainge (SG)
73 - Scott Wedman (SF)
64 - Jerry Sichting (PG)
63 - Sam Vincent (PG)
85-86 Atlanta Hawks
93 - Dominique Wilkins (SF)
76 - Doc Rivers (PG)
73 - Kevin Willis PF)
71 - Spud Webb (PG)
68 - Randy Wittman (SG)
66 - Antoine Carr (PF)
66 - Cliff Levingston (PF)
65 - Eddie Johnson (PG) - Interesting typo: 9 years pro, Age 8
62 - Tree Rollins (C)
59 - Jon Koncak (C)
52 - Scott Hastings (PF)
86-87 Los Angeles Lakers
95 - Magic Johnson (PG)
85 - James Worthy (SF)
84 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (C)
83 - Byron Scott (SG)
82 - Michael Cooper (SG)
75 - A.C. Green (PF)
67 - Kurt Rambis (PF)
66 - Billy Thompson
64 - Mychal Thompson
62 - Frank Brickowski
88-89 Detroit Pistons
91 - Isiah Thomas (PG)
89 - Joe Dumars (SG)
80 - Mark Aguirre (SF)
79 - Bill Laimbeer (C)
78 - Dennis Rodman (PF)
77 - Vinnie Johnson (SG)
70 - Darryl Dawkins (C)
65 - Rick Mahorn (C)
64 - John Salley (PF)
61 - James Edwards (C)
88-89 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
82 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
77 - Horace Grant (PF)
71 - Bill Cartwright (C)
69 - John Paxson (PG)
68 - Craig Hodges (PG)
68 - Sam Vincent (PG)
62 - Charles Davis (PF)
60 - Dave Corzine (C)
57 - Brad Sellers (C)
53 - Will Perdue (C)
89-90 Cleveland Cavaliers
84 - Mark Price (PG)
82 - Brad Daugherty (C)
79 - Larry Nance (SF)
76 - John Williams (PF)
75 - Craig Ehlo (SG)
70 - Reggie Williams (SF)
68 - Steve Kerr (PG)
61 - Tree Rollins (C)
52 - Paul Mokeski
90-91 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan
89 - Scottie Pippen
82 - Horace Grant
71 - John Paxson (PG)
69 - B.J. Armstrong (PG)
67 - Craig Hodges (PG)
66 - Bill Cartwright (C)
64 - Cliff Levingston (PF)
62 - Stacey King (PF)
61 - Will Perdue (C)
60 - Scott Williams (PF)
90-91 Los Angeles Lakers
95 - Magic Johnson (PG)
87 - James Worthy (SF)
79 - Byron Scott (SG)
77 - Vlade Divac (C)
75 - Sam Perkins (PF)
74 - A.C. Green (PF)
66 - Larry Drew (PG)
64 - Elden Campbell (C)
59 - Mychal Thompson (C)
90-91 Portland Trailblazers
92 - Clyde Drexler (SG)
85 - Terry Porter (PG)
81 - Jerome Kersey (SF)
75 - Buck Williams (PF)
74 - Cliff Robinson (PF)
73 - Danny Ainge (SG)
72 - Drazen Petrovic (SG)
71 - Kevin Duckworth (C)
57 - Mark Bryant (PF)
90-91 Golden State Warriors
90 - Chris Mullin (SF)
90 - Mitch Richmond (SG)
90 - Tim Hardaway (PG)
76 - Sarunas Marciulionis (SG)
72 - Rod Higgins (SF)
67 - Mario Elie (SG)
64 - Alton Lister (C)
63 - Tom Tolbert (PF)
60 - Vincent Askew (SG)
52 - Paul Mokeski (C)
92-93 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
90 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
83 - Horace Grant (PF)
71 - B.J. Armstrong (PG)
67 - Rodney McCray (SF)
67 - John Paxson (PG)
65 - Bill Cartwright (C)
64 - Stacey King (PF)
63 - Scott Williams (PF)
61 - Will Perdue (C)
57 - Ed Nealy (PF)
92-93 Charlotte Hornets
89 - Alonzo Mourning (C)
89 - Larry Johnson (PF)
81 - Kendall Gill (SG)
81 - Mugsey Bogues (PG)
75 - Dell Curry (SG)
72 - Johnny Newman (SF)
70 - David Wingate (SG)
66 - Kenny Gattison (PF)
65 - Sidney Green (PF)
58 - Tony Bennett (PG)
55 - Kevin Lynch (SG)
93-94 Houston Rockets
97 - Hakeem Olajuwon (C)
80 - Otis Thorpe (PF)
77 - Vernon Maxwell (SG)
75 - Sam Cassell (PG)
75 - Robert Horry (SF)
74 - Kenny Smith (PG)
71 - Mario Elie (SG)
66 - Scott Brooks (PG)
57 - Matt Bullard (PF)
93-94 Denver Nuggets
85 - Dikembe Mutombo (C)
82 - Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (PG)
80 - Laphonso Ellis (PF)
79 - Reggie Williams (SF)
78 - Bryant Stith (SG)
73 - Robert Pack (PG)
72 - Rodney Rogers (PF)
63 - Tom Hammonds (PF)
94-95 New York Knicks
93 - Patrick Ewing (C)
82 - John Starks (SG)
78 - Charles Oakley (PF)
76 - Anthony Mason (SF)
73 - Doug Christie (SG)
73 - Greg Anthony (PG)
72 - Derek Harper (PG)
68 - Charles Smith (PF)
67 - Hubert Davis (SG)
65 - Monty Williams (SF)
62 - Anthony Bonner (PF)
58 - Herb Williams (C)
94-95 Orlando Magic
94 - Shaquille O'Neal (C)
86 - Penny Hardaway (PG)
82 - Horace Grant (PF)
81 - Nick Anderson (SG)
74 - Dennis Scott (SF)
69 - Anthony Bowie (SG)
69 - Donald Royal (SF)
68 - Brian Shaw (PG)
64 - Jeff Turner (SF)
59 - Tree Rollins (C)
95-96 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
92 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
84 - Dennis Rodman (PF)
76 - Toni Kukoc (SF)
74 - Ron Harper (PG)
69 - Steve Kerr (PG)
63 - John Salley (PF)
63 - Luc Longley (C)
60 - Jud Buechler (SG)
58 - Dickey Simpkins (PF)
57 - Bill Wennington (C)
53 - James Edwards (C)
95-96 Seattle Supersonics
90 - Shawn Kemp (PF)
90 - Gary Payton (PG)
80 - Detlef Schrempf (SF)
80 - Hersey Hawkins (SG)
73 - Sam Perkins (PF)
72 - Nate McMillian (PG)
71 - David Wingate (SG)
66 - Vincent Askew (SG)
63 - Ervin Johnson (C)
59 - Frank Brickowski (PF)
97-98 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
88 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
85 - Dennis Rodman (PF)
77 - Toni Kukoc (SF)
74 - Ron Harper (PG)
69 - Steve Kerr (PG)
67 - Luc Longley (C)
60 - Jud Buechler (SG)
58 - Dickey Simpkins (PF)
56 - Bill Wennington (C)
97-98 Utah Jazz
93 - Karl Malone (PF)
87 - John Stockton (PG)
81 - Jeff Hornacek (SG)
74 - Shandon Anderson (SF)
73 - Bryon Russell (SF)
69 - Howard Eisley (PG)
65 - Antoine Carr (PF)
64 - Greg Ostertag (C)
61 - Adam Keefe (SF)
56 - Greg Foster (PF)
97-98 Los Angeles Lakers
95 - Shaquille O'Neal (C)
85 - Eddie Jones (SG)
80 - Kobe Bryant (SG)
77 - Robert Horry (PF)
72 - Elden Campbell (C)
69 - Jon Barry (SG)
68 - Derek Fisher (PG)
58 - Corie Blount (PF)
97-98 San Antonio Spurs
93 - David Robinson (C)
89 - Tim Duncan (PF)
76 - Vinny Del Negro (SG)
76 - Avery Johnson (PG)
75 - Sean Elliott (SF)
69 - Jaren Jackson (SG)
67 - Monty Williams (SF)
67 - Chuck Person (SF)
61 - Will Perdue (C)
01-02 Sacramento Kings
93 - Chris Webber (PF)
81 - Vlade Divac (C)
81 - Peja Stojakovic (SF)
81 - Doug Christie (SG)
77 - Bobby Jackson (PG)
77 - Mike Bibby (PG)
71 - Hedo Turkoglu (SF)
68 - Gerald Wallace (SF)
63 - Lawrence Funderburke (PF)
60 - Scot Pollard (C)
What teams would you have liked to see, and why?
NOTE: Some teams are missing a key player here or there (most notably the 85 Sixers who are missing Charles Barkley). If a team does not have 12 players on the roster a generic player will take the spot: Michael Davis, David Miller, John Brown, William Jones, Robert Williams, James Smith, or Richard Johnson.
64-65 Boston Celtics
97 - Bill Russell (C)
89 - Sam Jones (SG)
87 - John Havlicek (SF)
84 - Tom Sanders (PF)
81 - Tom Heinsohn (PF)
81 - K.C. Jones (PG)
70 - Larry Siegfried (PG)
60 - Mel Counts (C)
52 - John Thompson (C)
64-65 Los Angeles Lakers
94 - Elgin Baylor (SF)
91 - Jerry West (PG)
83 - Rudy LaRusso (PF)
80 - Dick Barnett (SG)
66 - LeRoy Ellis (C)
65 - Don Nelson (SF)
64 - Walt Hazzard (PG)
63 - Darrall Imhoff (C)
62 - Jim King (SG)
70-71 Milwaukee Bucks
97 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (C)
94 - Oscar Robertson (PG)
88 - Bob Dandridge (SF)
73 - Greg Smith (PF)
72 - Bob Boozer (PF)
72 - Jon McGlocklin (SG)
70 - Lucius Allen (PG)
60 - Dick Cunningham (C)
70-71 Los Angeles Lakers
94 - Wilt Chamberlain (C)
92 - Jerry West (PG)
85 - Gail Goodrich (SG)
76 - Elgin Baylor (SF)
74 - Keith Erickson (SF)
72 - Jim McMillian (SF)
61 - Rick Roberson (C)
61 - Willie McCarter
70-71 Atlanta Hawks
86 - Lou Hudson (SF)
85 - Pete Maravich (SG)
80 - Walt Bellamy (C)
80 - Bill Bridges (PF)
77 - Walt Hazzard (PG)
67 - Jerry Chambers (SF)
61 - Len Chappell (PF)
61 - Jim Davis (C)
71-72 Los Angeles Lakers
93 - Wilt Chamberlain (C)
90 - Jerry West (PG)
87 - Gail Goodrich (SG)
77 - Jim McMillian (SF)
76 - Elgin Baylor (SF)
73 - Keith Erickson (SF)
70 - Flynn Robinson (PG)
62 - LeRoy Ellis (C)
71-72 New York Knicks
89 - Walt Frazier (PG)
87 - Jerry Lucas (PF)
85 - Dave DeBusschere (PF)
83 - Willis Reed (C)
78 - Earl Monroe (PG)
77 - Bill Bradley (SF)
74 - Dick Barnett (SG)
70 - Phil Jackson (PF)
51 - Luther Rackley (C)
76-77 Philadelphia 76ers
96 - Julius Erving (SF)
93 - George McGinnis (PF)
81 - Doug Collins (SG)
80 - World B. Free (PG)
80 - Henry Bibby (PG)
73 - Steve Mix (PF)
73 - Darryl Dawkins (C)
72 - Joe Bryant (SF)
67 - Harvey Catchings (C)
63 - Mike Dunleavy (PG)
84-85 Philadelphia 76ers
94 - Moses Malone (C)
93 - Julius Erving (SF)
83 - Maurice Cheeks (PG)
74 - Bobby Jones (SF)
71 - Clint Richardson (SG)
67 - George Johnson (PF)
66 - Clemon Johnson (C)
84-85 Milwaukee Bucks
91 - Sidney Moncrief (SG)
89 - Terry Cummings (PF)
86 - Paul Pressey (SG)
76 - Ricky Pierce (SF)
72 - Mike Dunleavy (PG)
68 - Alton Lister (C)
66 - Craig Hodges (PG)
63 - Charles Davis (SF)
60 - Randy Breuer (C)
57 - Paul Mokeski (C)
85-86 Chicago Bulls
92 - Michael Jordan (SG)
81 - George Gervin (SF)
81 - Orlando Woolridge (SF)
73 - Charles Oakley (PF)
68 - John Paxson (PG)
66 - Rod Higgins (SF)
66 - Sidney Green (PF)
66 - Kyle Macy (PG)
62 - Dave Corzine (C)
85-86 Boston Celtics
97 - Larry Bird (SF)
88 - Kevin McHale (PF)
86 - Robert Parish (C)
80 - Dennis Johnson (PG)
77 - Bill Walton (C)
74 - Danny Ainge (SG)
73 - Scott Wedman (SF)
64 - Jerry Sichting (PG)
63 - Sam Vincent (PG)
85-86 Atlanta Hawks
93 - Dominique Wilkins (SF)
76 - Doc Rivers (PG)
73 - Kevin Willis PF)
71 - Spud Webb (PG)
68 - Randy Wittman (SG)
66 - Antoine Carr (PF)
66 - Cliff Levingston (PF)
65 - Eddie Johnson (PG) - Interesting typo: 9 years pro, Age 8
62 - Tree Rollins (C)
59 - Jon Koncak (C)
52 - Scott Hastings (PF)
86-87 Los Angeles Lakers
95 - Magic Johnson (PG)
85 - James Worthy (SF)
84 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (C)
83 - Byron Scott (SG)
82 - Michael Cooper (SG)
75 - A.C. Green (PF)
67 - Kurt Rambis (PF)
66 - Billy Thompson
64 - Mychal Thompson
62 - Frank Brickowski
88-89 Detroit Pistons
91 - Isiah Thomas (PG)
89 - Joe Dumars (SG)
80 - Mark Aguirre (SF)
79 - Bill Laimbeer (C)
78 - Dennis Rodman (PF)
77 - Vinnie Johnson (SG)
70 - Darryl Dawkins (C)
65 - Rick Mahorn (C)
64 - John Salley (PF)
61 - James Edwards (C)
88-89 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
82 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
77 - Horace Grant (PF)
71 - Bill Cartwright (C)
69 - John Paxson (PG)
68 - Craig Hodges (PG)
68 - Sam Vincent (PG)
62 - Charles Davis (PF)
60 - Dave Corzine (C)
57 - Brad Sellers (C)
53 - Will Perdue (C)
89-90 Cleveland Cavaliers
84 - Mark Price (PG)
82 - Brad Daugherty (C)
79 - Larry Nance (SF)
76 - John Williams (PF)
75 - Craig Ehlo (SG)
70 - Reggie Williams (SF)
68 - Steve Kerr (PG)
61 - Tree Rollins (C)
52 - Paul Mokeski
90-91 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan
89 - Scottie Pippen
82 - Horace Grant
71 - John Paxson (PG)
69 - B.J. Armstrong (PG)
67 - Craig Hodges (PG)
66 - Bill Cartwright (C)
64 - Cliff Levingston (PF)
62 - Stacey King (PF)
61 - Will Perdue (C)
60 - Scott Williams (PF)
90-91 Los Angeles Lakers
95 - Magic Johnson (PG)
87 - James Worthy (SF)
79 - Byron Scott (SG)
77 - Vlade Divac (C)
75 - Sam Perkins (PF)
74 - A.C. Green (PF)
66 - Larry Drew (PG)
64 - Elden Campbell (C)
59 - Mychal Thompson (C)
90-91 Portland Trailblazers
92 - Clyde Drexler (SG)
85 - Terry Porter (PG)
81 - Jerome Kersey (SF)
75 - Buck Williams (PF)
74 - Cliff Robinson (PF)
73 - Danny Ainge (SG)
72 - Drazen Petrovic (SG)
71 - Kevin Duckworth (C)
57 - Mark Bryant (PF)
90-91 Golden State Warriors
90 - Chris Mullin (SF)
90 - Mitch Richmond (SG)
90 - Tim Hardaway (PG)
76 - Sarunas Marciulionis (SG)
72 - Rod Higgins (SF)
67 - Mario Elie (SG)
64 - Alton Lister (C)
63 - Tom Tolbert (PF)
60 - Vincent Askew (SG)
52 - Paul Mokeski (C)
92-93 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
90 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
83 - Horace Grant (PF)
71 - B.J. Armstrong (PG)
67 - Rodney McCray (SF)
67 - John Paxson (PG)
65 - Bill Cartwright (C)
64 - Stacey King (PF)
63 - Scott Williams (PF)
61 - Will Perdue (C)
57 - Ed Nealy (PF)
92-93 Charlotte Hornets
89 - Alonzo Mourning (C)
89 - Larry Johnson (PF)
81 - Kendall Gill (SG)
81 - Mugsey Bogues (PG)
75 - Dell Curry (SG)
72 - Johnny Newman (SF)
70 - David Wingate (SG)
66 - Kenny Gattison (PF)
65 - Sidney Green (PF)
58 - Tony Bennett (PG)
55 - Kevin Lynch (SG)
93-94 Houston Rockets
97 - Hakeem Olajuwon (C)
80 - Otis Thorpe (PF)
77 - Vernon Maxwell (SG)
75 - Sam Cassell (PG)
75 - Robert Horry (SF)
74 - Kenny Smith (PG)
71 - Mario Elie (SG)
66 - Scott Brooks (PG)
57 - Matt Bullard (PF)
93-94 Denver Nuggets
85 - Dikembe Mutombo (C)
82 - Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (PG)
80 - Laphonso Ellis (PF)
79 - Reggie Williams (SF)
78 - Bryant Stith (SG)
73 - Robert Pack (PG)
72 - Rodney Rogers (PF)
63 - Tom Hammonds (PF)
94-95 New York Knicks
93 - Patrick Ewing (C)
82 - John Starks (SG)
78 - Charles Oakley (PF)
76 - Anthony Mason (SF)
73 - Doug Christie (SG)
73 - Greg Anthony (PG)
72 - Derek Harper (PG)
68 - Charles Smith (PF)
67 - Hubert Davis (SG)
65 - Monty Williams (SF)
62 - Anthony Bonner (PF)
58 - Herb Williams (C)
94-95 Orlando Magic
94 - Shaquille O'Neal (C)
86 - Penny Hardaway (PG)
82 - Horace Grant (PF)
81 - Nick Anderson (SG)
74 - Dennis Scott (SF)
69 - Anthony Bowie (SG)
69 - Donald Royal (SF)
68 - Brian Shaw (PG)
64 - Jeff Turner (SF)
59 - Tree Rollins (C)
95-96 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
92 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
84 - Dennis Rodman (PF)
76 - Toni Kukoc (SF)
74 - Ron Harper (PG)
69 - Steve Kerr (PG)
63 - John Salley (PF)
63 - Luc Longley (C)
60 - Jud Buechler (SG)
58 - Dickey Simpkins (PF)
57 - Bill Wennington (C)
53 - James Edwards (C)
95-96 Seattle Supersonics
90 - Shawn Kemp (PF)
90 - Gary Payton (PG)
80 - Detlef Schrempf (SF)
80 - Hersey Hawkins (SG)
73 - Sam Perkins (PF)
72 - Nate McMillian (PG)
71 - David Wingate (SG)
66 - Vincent Askew (SG)
63 - Ervin Johnson (C)
59 - Frank Brickowski (PF)
97-98 Chicago Bulls
99 - Michael Jordan (SG)
88 - Scottie Pippen (SF)
85 - Dennis Rodman (PF)
77 - Toni Kukoc (SF)
74 - Ron Harper (PG)
69 - Steve Kerr (PG)
67 - Luc Longley (C)
60 - Jud Buechler (SG)
58 - Dickey Simpkins (PF)
56 - Bill Wennington (C)
97-98 Utah Jazz
93 - Karl Malone (PF)
87 - John Stockton (PG)
81 - Jeff Hornacek (SG)
74 - Shandon Anderson (SF)
73 - Bryon Russell (SF)
69 - Howard Eisley (PG)
65 - Antoine Carr (PF)
64 - Greg Ostertag (C)
61 - Adam Keefe (SF)
56 - Greg Foster (PF)
97-98 Los Angeles Lakers
95 - Shaquille O'Neal (C)
85 - Eddie Jones (SG)
80 - Kobe Bryant (SG)
77 - Robert Horry (PF)
72 - Elden Campbell (C)
69 - Jon Barry (SG)
68 - Derek Fisher (PG)
58 - Corie Blount (PF)
97-98 San Antonio Spurs
93 - David Robinson (C)
89 - Tim Duncan (PF)
76 - Vinny Del Negro (SG)
76 - Avery Johnson (PG)
75 - Sean Elliott (SF)
69 - Jaren Jackson (SG)
67 - Monty Williams (SF)
67 - Chuck Person (SF)
61 - Will Perdue (C)
01-02 Sacramento Kings
93 - Chris Webber (PF)
81 - Vlade Divac (C)
81 - Peja Stojakovic (SF)
81 - Doug Christie (SG)
77 - Bobby Jackson (PG)
77 - Mike Bibby (PG)
71 - Hedo Turkoglu (SF)
68 - Gerald Wallace (SF)
63 - Lawrence Funderburke (PF)
60 - Scot Pollard (C)
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