Tuesday, October 19, 2010

UGH, why dunks, WHY?

Edited ratings/tendencies (except for touches) for the Lakers and ran a sim against the Knicks.

The Knicks did something they never did against my un-edited Nets team - attack the rim with ferocity.

The Line: 12 points, 12 assists, 3 turnovers (3-9 FG, 0-3 3PT, 6-7 FT)
What Happened: All three of Felton's baskets were "And One" layups.

The Line: 17 points (5-8 FG, 0-0 3PT, 7-7 FT)
What Happened: Chandler had an "And One" dunk that rattled in. He obviously got 7 FTA from attacking the rim a lot. I don't have too much of a problem though, because the rest of his shots were Isolation jumpers.

The Line: 13 points (4-9 FG, 2-7 3PT, 3-4 FTA)
What Happened: Two open threes, two semi-fastbreak dunks. I won't complain about the two dunks, because those were his only non-3PA of the night.

The Line: 30 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists (10-15 FG, 10-11 FT)
What Happened: Gasol and Odom simply could not keep up with Amare. That's accurate, but I felt there were 2 dunks Amare had that came too easily (due to the animation). In total he had 4 dunks, 3 layups, and 2 jumpers.

The Line: 6 points, 12 rebounds, 4 blocks (2-5 FG, 0-1 3PT, 2-2 FT)
What Happened: Both shots were dunks. One off a cut, one off a rebound.

The Line: 10 points, 2 blocks (4-6 FG, 2-2 FT)
What happened: All 4 shots were dunks. This is what pissed me off and made me write this.
Dunk #1: Ratliff contests Felton's shot but he passes out to Turiaf who has a clear path. I didn't like this before but it's mainly the CPU defense's fault rather than a baseline exploit. Dunk#2: Amare passes from top of 3pt arch to Turiaf (who has to gather the ball). Turiaf then does a standing dunk. I would have preferred this pass go out of bounds given the passer & receiver.
Dunk#3: Fastbreak dunk off pass from Gallinari. I'm okay with this - it's why I boosted PF/C speed.
Dunk#4: Dunk off a basket cut from the Double Roll play. I'm definitely okay with that.

So really, I'm OKAY with the results... and I suppose it's better than him scoring on post-ups... and this is exactly what I wanted... I just don't like when there are too many dunks is all.

The Line: 5 points, 5 assists, 0 TO (2-3 FG, 1-1 3PT)
What Happened: A three off Douglas' favorite screen play, and a fastbreak layup.

The Line: 13 points, 6 rebounds (5-7 FG, 3-3 FT)
What Happened: Surprisingly, only one dunk. Randolph had a mid-range shot off a broken pass, a fastbreak layup, a pick and roll layup, a putback off a rebound, and his dunk was also a putback but a strange one. He rebounded the ball, FAKED A PASS, and then went up for his standing dunk. The defense didn't react to the pass fake, and really should have been trying to swarm him, but instead just watched Randolph gather himself.

The Line: 14 points (7-17 FG, 0-4 3PT, 0-0 FT)
What Happened: Mason scored 6 times via his favorite screen play. I think it's time to take it out of his repertoire.

The Line: 11 points (4-5 FG, 1-1 3PT, 2-3 FT)
What Happened: One fastbreak dunk, two Iso jumpers, one "and one" layup off a cut

Aside from the usual Mason rubbish, Knicks didn't run too many plays (at least plays that worked). In total there were 15 dunks, and I'd like to try and cut that number in half. I might have to drop some dunk ratings to do it.


I'm not going to get too into detail on the Lakers since I didn't adjust their touches and haven't analyzed their playbooks.

The Line: 4 points, 2 assists (1-3 FG, 0-1 3PT, 2-2 FT)

The Line: 46 points (19-32 FG, 1-1 3PT, 7-10 FT)
What Happened: It's better to just make a list.
Iso Drives: 4 (one dunk)
Iso Jumper: 3 (one with foot on 3pt line)
Post-Ups: 4
Spot-Ups: 4 (one three, one with foot on 3pt line)
Off-Screen Jumper: 3
Fastbreaks: 1

I'd heard that Kobe was taking too many off-screen jumpers before, so it seems my tendency changes fixed that.

The Line: 8 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assists, 4 TO (2-6 FG, 1-3 3PT, 3-4 FT)

The Line: 15 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks (5-8 FG, 1-2 3PT, 4-6 FT)

The Line: 36 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists (14-22 FG, 8-9 FT)

The Line: 8 points (3-4 FG, 1-2 3PT, 1-1 FT)

The Line: 5 points, 3 assists (2-2 FG, 1-1 3PT)

The Line: 0 points (0-3 FG, 0-2 3PT)

The Line: 0 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists (0-2 FG)

The Line: 2 points (1-1 FG)

The Lakers only had three dunks (one for Kobe, one for Gasol, one for Brown), which I found a bit surprising, especially since Kobe took a lot of shots. Of course, the presence of Andrew Bynum probably would have changed all that.

Looks like it's time to make some Touch adjustments, and solve Roger Mason once and for all.


LunaticWolf said...

Why would you need to lower the dunk ratings? Isn't there an attempt dunk tendancy?

Anonymous said...

hey rashidi have you ever ude DC dunk and stand dunk edits. It really works. You see more realistic dunks in this game. You should take a look at that.

Shelb said...

Kobe shot 32 times? Is this 2006?

Roger Mason had 17 shots? Is this his dream?

Playing alot of My Player the last few days (18 games in about 3 days) has me nearly throwing my controller across at the TV several times.

Anyone saying this game is fine out the box is terribly mistaken.

Anonymous said...

If there is ANY way to fix the amount of 'and 1's' could you please fix it. I'm sick of getting 10 'and 1's' a game... it's just not realistic

LunaticWolf said...


you could try turning down Shooting Fouls in the sliders or upping the difficulty one

Rashidi said...

I already edit dunks and standing dunk similar to however DC's doing it. I've lowered dunk tendencies for most players as well.

Shelb said...

Is there anyway to change the "Velcro Jerseys" Mode off so plays don't stick together for 3 seconds whenever they touch?

Is there anyway to change the "Rebounding Like A Blind Person" option so user controlled players don't just jump straight up in the air when trying to get a rebound even if there's no one else around and the ball just rolls out of bounce because Player Loose Ball Recognition is completely broken?

The praise from reviewers (and even myself for the first 72 hours) for this game have turned out to be completely misjudged. This needs a lot of fixes. I was happier playing NBA2K10 (and THAT was buggy as hell) than I am this game because of the complete nonsense of some things in this game.

Rashidi said...

Lunatic Wolf, the problem isn't that there are too many fouls - it's that too many shooting fouls become and ones.

Shelb said...

I think FTs are broken all over. I played against the Celtics and Shaq and Rondo went a combined 16-19 in My Player.

So I played another play of Orlando (me) vs Celtics and Rondo/Shaq went 7/9.

So I simmed a game (the FTs were really bothering me) and Shaq/Rondo went 9/12.

Also, just for added info Allen took 0 2PT combined in all games. KG was, as usually, unstoppable shooting 15/28 combined.

Other combined stats: PP - 61 points, 14-33 9-10 3PT...
JO: 15-29... yup

Rashidi said...

Running another Knick/Laker sim. Forgot to adjust dunk ratings, but rather, revamped my touches tendencies again. This is just a test.

Amare 72
Randolph 62
Chandler 51
Azubuike 50 - injured
Douglas 49
Felton 48
Gallinari 48
Mason 42
Walker 40
Mozgov 32
Turiaf 24

Kobe 87
Gasol 54
Bynum 52 - injured
Brown 46
Odom 43
Artest 39
Barnes 39
Vujacic 36
Blake 33
Fisher 32
Ratliff 27

Doesn't seem to work though, as Kobe has 20 points (9-14 FG) through the first quarter. Rest of team? 3-6 FG.

I think ultimately a lot of this falls on 2K's defensive A.I. (or lack thereof). Knicks should be doubling Kobe at this point, which should be creating looks for other Lakers. But instead Kobe is just abusing the Knicks 1-on-1. Back to the drawing board I suppose.

Anonymous said...

what game sliders are good to use with these rosters

Rashidi said...

It DID seem to work well with the Knicks, though.

LunaticWolf said...

There is a contact shot success slider, try dropping that?

Maybe 87 is simply too high? Can you adjust the scale down a little bit so someone of Kobe's caliber is like 75?

Rashidi said...

The particular way that I tested just now was based entirely off Usage rate.

Set the base Touches @ 50 and base Usage @ 20.0%

Kobe's USG last year was 32.3.
32.3 - 20.0 = 12.3
12.3 x 3 = 37
50 + 37 = 87

The problem with going straight off the stats is... injuries & inconsistent lineups.

Gasol and Bynum essentially split time as the 2nd option last season. Gasol's USG was 21.2 while Bynum's was 20.8. However, with Bynum out of the lineup, Gasol is sure to see a boost in USG as the team goes from two post players to one.

...Granted, this is the exact method that 2K used, which is why it predictably worked poorly. I'm looking for connections between their shot tendencies and touch tendencies though so I can get a better understanding of what they were at least TRYING to do. One positive thing I thought I fixed was Blake/Fisher were too low, and I figured boosting them would maybe help keep Kobe from going off... instead, it seems I might have to use the method I used with the Knicks... which requires Synergy (about to expire), was a bit time consuming, and is hardly perfect.

I was happy with the Knick results (they are all a bit closer together in USG than the Lakers who have a significant gap between star player and secondary players).

Between all of this and adjusting playbooks, as well as the need to restart the roster I had nearly completed... it's been a very frustrating week. I may have to give up on fixing touches for now and focus on getting a roster up before the season starts... because now ratings are going to start fluctuating from the values I previously had them at.

Rashidi said...

Ignore everything I've said; I'm going about this the wrong way. Instead of testing with individual teams I need to track Touches for the entire league. I'm making a list effective immediately.

attention deficit said...

Rashidi man if youre using any of the default 2k sliders then youre not going to get the results that you want. The sliders is whats screwing the gameplay and stats.

Rashidi said...

I'm not going for super accurate statistics right now - just accurate shot distribution. Shooting percentages can always be modified with sliders. Distribution? Not so much.

LunaticWolf said...

What I noticed when I put in your touch values for the Lakers is that they would constantly be running plays for Kobe. I didn't see a single post-up play for Bynum or Gasol.

I decided to reduce the distance between the values. Instead of it being on a scale from 1-100, I reduced it to 45-55.Here are the Values I got:
Fish: 48
Kobe 53
Artest: 49
Gasol 50
Bynum 50

I was disappointed however, when halfway through the 1st quarter, Kobe had taken 10 shots, and Bynum was the only other member to take a FGA, it was an offensive putback off a bryant miss.

I decided to reduce the scale even further. I went with this.
Role Player: 49 (18% or less USG)
Sixth Man/Decent amount of offense: 50 (19-21% usg)
Stars 51 (22+usg)

I did it for both the Jazz and the Lakers for a test run

Deron 51, Raja 49, AK 49, Millsap 50 Jefferson 51

Fish 49, Kobe 51, Artest 49 Gasol 50 Bynum 50

In this test run, I turned off substitutions, fouls, and injuries, as well as set the game speed to 47 (When set to 50, teams average 90+ FGA, too many) In addition, I decreased the shooting tendancy of Deron, Raja, Kobe, and Gasol by around 5 pts.

Here is the FGA distribution at Halftime

Deron 5-10 (GOOD! with default touches, he averages less than 10ppg)
Raja 4-8
AK 1-5
PM 6-10
AJ 3-8

Fish 4-7
K 11-18 (less still needed should average 20 in about 3 quarters)
A 1-2 ( wish this was more)
Gasol 5-10
AB 1-6

LunaticWolf said...

One thing I noticed with this set up was that the CPU seemed to be using a larger amount of plays. I saw a screen play for Raja to get open that I hadn't seen before. Several post-ups by Gasol and Bynum, which didn't exist when Kobe had such a high touch.

LunaticWolf said...

I keep forgetting things.

I used the roster that shipped with the game for this test. Also, when you are looking at the field goals, remember, each player played 24 minutes. Most players would only play an additional 12 minutes or so, so to get the total field goals for a game, add a third of the FGA to it to get total FGA.

Anonymous said...

FYI, There's an actual stats called "possessions" which is different from "usage" I think that would have been a better stat to use

Rashidi said...

What I noticed when making my touches list is there is simply too much separation from star players and everyone else.

matthew said...

my touch scale is fga+(.44fta)+to+ast

i tried that alone and the stars(testing lakers and nuggets) were still attempting too many fga. but the i did thois

sg and sf+0
pf and c+5

when i did this kobe and gasol we around their fg attempts kobe 23 and gasol 12. but melo took 30shots which isnt normal.

i think their role had something to do with it.(star starter role player etc) because kobe and gasol were getting their shots because there both stars and melo and billups arent because melo is a star yet billups is a starter.

ill test it by putting all the stars to starters see what i get

matthew said...

i think it worked but ill try it another game. kobe got 26fga pau got 13 melo got 22 billups got 21(because melo got doubleteamed and passed it to him who was open all the time